Becoming Emotionally Sturdy When Your Child Struggles, with Cathy Cioth

ABOUT THE EPISODE:

There is a version of a house where everyone moves quietly. You time your questions. You read the door slam before you read the room. You have gotten so good at it that you barely notice you are doing it anymore, and somewhere in there, one person's mood started running the whole place.

Cathy and I both lived there. I matched my son's emotional state toe to toe and had no skills to separate the two. Cathy handed so much authority over to her kids that her husband walked in the door every night and had to be the heavy, which put a wedge between them that added to their home’s dysfunction.

What we talk about in this episode is what pulled us out, and the term ‘emotional regulation’doesn’t adequately cover it. I made a decision while I was outlining this episode not to use that phrase, because I think it gets thrown around in a way that misses what you’re up against in the real world. Regulating is one thing. Planting your feet while a young person rages at you - and not picking up the rope - that takes something closer to durability. Stamina. Sturdiness.

Here is why we chose this topic: it is one of the most powerful things in this entire experience you are completely in charge of. You can’t control whether they show up for work, school or court. But this one is yours, and you can start on it today and feel something shift by the end of the week.

I also tell a story involving ten dollars and a vacuum, as a real world example of why emotional durability is crucial for your sanity and your child’s growth.

If you’re exhausted and need something to change this week, this is for you.

YOU'LL LEARN:

• Why I stopped using the phrase emotional regulation, and what Cathy and I use in its place
• The moment Cathy realized she had handed her parental authority over, and what it cost at home
• The ten dollar story with the vacuum that I still cringe about
• Where dysregulation shows up in your body first, and why that is the signal to work with
• Why the low stakes moments are where this can start growing in you

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Self coaching questions, Hopestream podcast Episode 333
• Self coaching questions, Hopestream podcast Episode 328
• Beyond Addiction: How Science and Kindness Help People Change
• Beyond Addiction Workbook
• Free e-book, Worried Sick: hopestreamcommunity.org/worried 
• Free two-week trial of The Stream: hopestreamcommunity.org/try 

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram here
Watch the podcast on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey, Cathy. I am so happy to see you on our little flat screens that we get to see each other on all the time. It's our online office, which is all the time- It is ... I know. It is. It's a weird... I don't know, for those of us that are older and we worked in offices, I think it's- Mm-hmm ... kind of a weird, I don't know.

I'm not a I would love to work in an office a couple days a week, and then actually get to see you in person. I guess then- Yeah ... we'd also have to live in the same city, but eh. We'd have to live in the same city, which would be such a perk. 'Cause when we get together, it's truly amazing, just having...

I mean, in a way, this kind of connects with what we're talking about. Just, connecting with other people in real life is just such a different thing than being on Zoom. Yeah. Although, it's nice to see you often on Zoom, but I don't know. I know. I'd much rather be in person. I know. Well, and if you're watching the video, I am drinking 

[00:01:00] coffee. We've talked about this before. I think I've talked about it before, where it's like I have to have two cups of coffee a day, otherwise I get a horrible headache. Which this makes me really, feel for our kids. Because then, if I have it now, which is 1:15 in the afternoon, I may be wide awake tonight when...

I probably won't, because we're moving and I'm tired enough that I'm probably gonna fall asleep. But anyway, I had to make a cup of coffee, and I didn't have time to drink it all before we got on this. So if you're watching us on YouTube, I'm drinking coffee. That's just the way it is. Yeah. It... No apologies for that.

No. And if you don't know about Brenda, besides her being a data nerd, she's a big coffee snob too, as I discovered. I don't think- Which I apprec- ... I'm a coffee snob. No, you, in a good way. I don't... What's a better way? You're a coffee connoisseur. I shouldn't call you a snob. You're a coffee connoisseur. You know a good cup of coffee. Obviously, being from Seattle- Yeah ... you should know a good cup of 

[00:02:00] coffee. I appreciate that about you, because I was not so much of a coffee connoisseur- ... before I met you. And then I appreciate that about you. I love it. Well, it's important. And I was even later than I was- Yeah ... supposed to be for this, because People are like, "What does this have to do anything with kids and addiction?"

It does not. It just means that you're a human, and sometimes you just have to talk about human things. I decided to get a new... Well, we had this old, old, old grinder, and so I decided to get, like, a new nice grinder. Which I love, by the way. Like, how a coffee grinder can bring me so much joy, I have no idea.

But it's really good. And so then I get the beans, and then I grind it. So I go downstairs, I'm running 'cause I know you're waiting on a call, and there is not, not one scoop of coffee in my little coffee container. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I have to grind coffee." It's one of the simple pleasures of life. That's right. That's right. It's your self-care practice. We're gonna talk about self-care. Yes. 

[00:03:00] That's definitely a good self-care practice, and just having the ritual of coffee. I don't know. I think if it brings you joy, why not? Exactly. Although I don't like- Yeah ... the whole thing about getting a headache if I don't have it, I think that might be slightly problematic.

But it's a problem- ... I'm willing to deal with for now, so Yes. Yes. Yeah. For sure. I thought before we dive in, for... We have so many new listeners. I thought- Mm ... it might be fun for them to hear how the two of us got connected and hooked up to do this crazy- Oh, my gosh ... thing that we do. I would love that. I would love that.

And welcome to all of our new listeners. I think it's pretty cool and I started, I mean, really, when it came down to it, I met you, first of all online, because, my kids had just... Gosh, I'm trying to think. They had been to wilderness, but one of my friends that I met through there, who's also a mom in our community from a while ago, and she 

[00:04:00] sent me this link and said, "You should really start listening to this podcast and maybe join the community." And I thought, "All right. Why not?" And I remember meeting you and thinking, "Oh, this is so lovely. This is such a nice space," because as we know, there were a lot of spaces out there for, parents or mothers in particular. I'm not gonna mention names of these spaces, because they tend to be a little negative, I felt- Mm-hmm personally. Mm-hmm. And that was really hard, because I knew my reality after my kids went to wilderness. I was living in a little of, I didn't really understand what was going on, I guess. And so anyway, to come to this really pretty space that felt so much love and support, and your podcast was so nice.

And then we got to meet in person, because I decided to be a little risky and go on the retreat. The first ever retreat- With ... in 2021. Like, still in 

[00:05:00] COVID craziness. Total COVID craziness, and that has a, plays a part. And I remember even telling my husband, I'm like, "Hey, I really wanna go on this retreat with Brenda," and he's like, "Okay."

And our sons both lived in San Diego- Yep ... at the time. Yep. We figured that out. Figured out that. Yep. We figured that out. Same school. Yeah. Same, same community college. Same school, everything. Yeah. So what, of course, would a parent of young adults do but get them together for a coffee date with us. And that was fun, and we showed up and we were wearing the exact same thing pretty much, right?

Yep. I mean- Head to toe, same outfit. It was great. It was great. Yes. Yeah, and I had just gotten... I was, like, three days past my COVID quarantine, and this was- Oh, my God ... pre-vaccine, right? This was end of- Mm-hmm ... 2021, so I had 

[00:06:00] had it bad, and I'd asked you, I think, a couple weeks before the retreat. I was like, "That Cathy lady seems like she really has it together." I wonder if she would, I wonder if she would be willing to help me out, 'cause I was just, I was in that phase where you have zero energy And so I remember asking- Yeah ... you, like, "Hey, do you think if I'm really tired at the retreat, would you mind helping out?" And you were like, "Sure." And boy, did you help out because I was exhausted.

Yeah. I just remember we went to Old Town. We had the first retreat in San Diego, and we went to Old Town one night just for fun. And I remember- Mm-hmm ... just sitting on a bench and watching you all walk around and have so much fun, and I was like, "I cannot even stand up right now. I'm so tired." That was such a fun time, but also I remember you being so tired feeling so bad for you too. Gosh, yeah. But I'm also super grateful because, that's kinda when our partnership 

[00:07:00] started and- Mm-hmm ... it's really special because, gosh, I mean, to think, like- Even in the first few years that we really knew each other, we had maybe gotten together five times. I mean, it was crazy hardly any time at all.

Yeah. But we just hit it off so well. There was this kindred spirit to the friendship, and it was really neat, and of course, we had a common mission that we really wanted to help- Yes ... others, and- Yes. So- Yeah ... anyway, if you're new here, that is how Cathy and I came together. That's right. If you're an OG listener, you might already know that story, or you might not, 'cause I don't know.

We haven't really talked about it much- Right ... on the podcast. We talk about it a lot in the community, but- Yeah ... yeah, yeah. Yeah. I also wanted to make sure and mention that we do... we've sort of switched stuff up lately, which is always good, and we started a new free trial membership, and it is a free 

[00:08:00] two-week trial, so you can come into the stream. If you're a mom or female caregiver, you can hang out with us. You can come to one of my coaching sessions. You can come to one of Cathy's welcome calls, and just check us out, see if we're your kind of people. It's great. Definitely. Definitely come and partake. I mean, I think... Oh, my gosh, Brenda. I was on a call this morning, actually, and I heard just lots of great things about your coaching call- Mm

which is, I wanna share with people, too, when they come in, yes, I would love to have a call with you, kind of really show you around our beautiful space, and really cater things to what you're specifically going through but the opportunity just to have so much coaching within our community is amazing. I mean, really from where the stream started to where it is now is just so cool, and there's coaching available at every turn despite the fact you can 

[00:09:00] also get your own private coach if you really wanted to do that, too. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's... I think the way we have it organized in the calendar is that there is a coaching opportunity every week, whether that's with me or with you or Dana, Dr.

Wes, or Raleigh, so there's lots of opportunities. And we do that for a very specific reason, because we know when you come in, and this is all either maybe it's brand new to you or maybe you're seven years in, and you're like- Mm-hmm ... "Where do I even start?" It's just so overwhelming, so that's why we do a lot of coaching to give you ideas about, okay, if this is where you are, here is something to try this week.

And we're gonna actually talk about that today on the episode as well, because you gotta have some quick wins, right? You just have to start feeling like something's gonna change. And the more you can make that 

[00:10:00] change directed from you, the better off everyone's gonna be. Because otherwise, what you end up doing is just reacting, reacting, reacting to all the chaos that's going on in your house, and then that doesn't serve anybody well. It really doesn't, and it seems kinda counterintuitive too, right? That you need to change. You have a little bit of a change, and that really affects all those around you. But you think about it, and what we're gonna talk about, when your kids are doing a little better, you feel a little better, right?

So it's the opposite. They see how you are in your relationship with them and others, you know? And anyway, we're gonna talk a lot about that. So- Yeah ... I'm excited about the podcast today. I think it's gonna be great. Yeah. If you wanna do the trial, just go to hopestreamcommunity.org and then the /try, T-R-Y, and that will get you to the page where you 

[00:11:00] can sign up for those free two weeks. Definitely take advantage of the welcome call with Cathy, and all that's just comes to you automatically. Like, we have it really set up to guide you exactly through the first couple of weeks 'cause we know that it can be tricky. So hopestreamcommunity.org. That is a long URL. I didn't really think about that when we were setting that up.

But anyway, that's just the way it is. So go there, and we would love to offer you those free two weeks. You don't even have to put in a credit card. We were sitting around talking about this. This is just another tangent. Sorry. This is what you get when Cathy and I do- It's all right ... episodes together.

You get tangents but we were sitting around talking about this trial, and I think we both said like, "Oh, my gosh, when I see something that I wanna do and then I get halfway through the process and then I have to put in my credit card, it makes me so mad." I'm like, "That does 

[00:12:00] not- It does ... feel like a free trial." It's so true. It's so true. Yeah. And you're not always sure what you're gonna get when you put in your credit card too. Mm-hmm. So I love with these free two weeks in the Stream, you pretty much, you have access to pretty much everything, you know? Yeah. And definitely, all the things that are so helpful and I think, I will say that, most folks that are there and do it for the full two weeks decide this is something that they wanna do.

And you don't have to commit for a year either. You can do it for a month- Yeah ... or two months and see. We always encourage everyone to at least join some kind of live event And if you're new and you don't feel comfortable being in a Zoom room with your audio and video on, that's okay. You can have them off until you feel comfortable and ready to participate, if that's what you'd like to do.

Yeah. So there's so many ways to do it, but oh, I wish I had this when we were- I know ... in the thick of it. I know. I was texting with 

[00:13:00] Enzo yesterday. I don't even know what we were texting about, but I asked him if he wanted to go to a conference or something, and he said, "Yeah, that would be great. I had ... You know, I learned a lot last year." And I said, "Can you imagine if we would've known all of this 11 years ago?" Oh. And he was like, "Yeah, things would've been really different." I'm like, "Well, that's the understatement of the year." No kidding. For all of us, right? Yeah. And also, sometimes that's our path.

Mm-hmm. I really do feel that I was talking actually to someone the other day too about my son's path in college and what that was like, and would it have been better had he stayed home and knocked on- Right ... and everything else. But I realized I needed him to do that because I think I needed to get to the point, as sad as that sounds, I needed to get to that point of realizing this is really serious and what I needed to do for myself. You know? 

[00:14:00] So his growth was just as much for my growth too. So Yeah ... it's that little gift you get in recovery, which is really tough and if you're in the thick of it right now, I get it, that it's really hard to see, like you said, Brenda, 11 years post this today, you know? Yeah. But it is, you hope you can get there and I think there are just so many ways to get there today than there were 11 years ago.

We know so much more about this, right? Oh, so much more and I wanna be- Yeah ... very clear also that and I was telling this to some friends this past weekend, if I had known all the stuff that I know now about CRAFT and Invitation to Change and motivational interviewing and self-compassion, my experience through my son's struggles would've been different.

I cannot say that his experience would have been any different. There's just- Right ... no way to predict that, right? Do I think- Right ... potentially it 

[00:15:00] could have been better for him? Maybe. But he was hell bent on doing what he was gonna do. And so I think it's important to mention that, because what we're not selling here is, "Do these things and your kid is not gonna have...

You know, your kid's gonna stop using substances and they're gonna resolve their mental health." Right. Not at all. What we're saying is, "Here are a set of tools, strategies, approaches, behaviors that will change you, and likely, most likely, change the people around you, including your child who is struggling and that may change their trajectory.

It may shorten it. Right. It may make it less intense. It may whatever. Like, I definitely think we could have had better communication, because we were just, I was just a yeller. Like, I just figured I could yell my son out of addiction. Oh, yeah ... boiler 

[00:16:00] alert, that doesn't work. So if you're trying that method, you can skip it. Like, does not work. So I just never want anybody to think, like, "Oh, if I do all these things, it's going to equal my child not using substances," because they are the only ones who can decide that. You can influence it. Right. Does that make sense? I just wanna be very clear about that. No, I think that makes a lot of sense, and I think, what we're saying too is it really matters who you are as a parent, right?

So Enzo probably didn't, just like my kids, did not wanna come to me. I was a sobbing mess a lot of the time. I was also yelling a lot. Yeah. Did I seem like a safe person to come to, even if they had that little break of, "Maybe I wanna change"? Probably not, right? Because a lot of how I 

[00:17:00] interacted with my kids was punitive. I was incredibly shaming at them, you know, all those things. I also didn't really care about myself as much, right? Because I was always pointing out- Yeah ... thinking I could love them out of it, I could scream them out of it, I could shame them out of it. We tried hard all the things- ... by the way.

Oh, I mean, it's for sure. And I think what I've realized through this whole thing is that what really made a difference was when I became more approachable, because I had to do a lot of work on myself. Yeah. I had to calm the voices in my head that were, I had to change my reactivity and everything else, and it took time. It definitely took time, and those were skills I had to learn and do a lot of practice with my husband, or even act with people when I was driving a car, whatever it 

[00:18:00] was, right? I had to, like, really question myself a lot on why I was thinking things, why I was feeling things. And anyway, we're gonna go into all of that. And I do think just being, changing that about yourself can help change your kid. Yes. Well, that is a perfect segue to what we are gonna talk about and when, as we were preparing for this, I think we were both just feeling so much compassion for the parents who this is gonna resonate with because we both lived in this space, I think.

And I think it's the natural space to start out in because you're terrified that your kid's, doing the things that they are. There's both the, like, near term fear because maybe they're drinking and driving or they're under the influence of substances and driving or hanging around with dangerous people. So you have this weird combination of the 

[00:19:00] fear of today, but then also this long-term ambiguous fear of the future of are they ever gonna be independent? Are they ever going to be healthy, have a relationship, have children if that's what they want? You know, all those things. So it's a weird kind of stew of emotions if you wanna call it that.

Yeah. It's definitely a weird stew of emotions, and it really impacts how we parent our kids, right? Yeah, yeah. I remember very well hearing that first term, are you parenting out of fear? Mm-hmm. And to tell you the truth- Okay, a thousand percent ... I didn't even really recognize what that meant, you know?

Oh, really? No. Yeah. I really didn't. Yeah. I just, all I knew was I was just doing the best that I could. Yeah. And it wasn't until I think one of Enzo's therapists kind of talked me through what that meant. You know, like, are 

[00:20:00] you doing this? Are you doing that? Like, I was... I don't know if in those days you could check people's locations.

This was like 2013 to '17. You probably could, I just didn't know it. But I'd be driving around looking for his drug dealer, and I would be trying to get him home, keep him home, all the things, and make decisions because I was so afraid. So anyway, just in case anybody's like, "Well, what does that mean, parenting out of fear?"

I didn't really understand it either, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But what we wanted to talk about today is this idea of emotional sturdiness and the magic of it, because this is something that you can do today and we see this a lot in our community, is we have people who are like, I wanna see some change quickly. I need to feel some change quickly because I am exhausted," right? "And I'm losing hope." 

[00:21:00] And so the reason we like this is because it's something that you can do today. You can practice it. You can probably do it for a week, and you are going to see a change, at a minimum, in yourself, and- Right ... most likely with the people that s- you spend the most time with.

Would you say? Yeah, for sure Yeah For sure. I think it's our kids when they're really upset, when they're dysregulated, right, it really impacts us in that way. It's the, oh gosh, what is it called? You're as happiest as your least happy kid. Yes. You hear people talk about that.

And it doesn't have to be that way, but it is definitely something I think you and I both experienced when we were going through it and I had the double whammy 'cause both kids were so unhappy at home and so dysregulated. I just 

[00:22:00] felt we were constantly walking on eggshells in our house. Yeah. And it was really difficult. Yeah, we see this and I experienced this, where my son's emotional state dictated my emotional state. I did not have the skills to separate those two things, so if he was highly dysregulated, aggressive, angry, whatever, I matched him toe-to-toe, just that's exactly how I was.

Yeah ... and then the other thing that I think happens is that because our kids get so dysregulated, they kind of have us wrapped around their finger to a degree, where we are doing everything we can, and we're running our household in order to not disturb them- Mm-hmm ... send them off into a tizzy fit, cause a disruption. And that really impacts 

[00:23:00] everybody in the family, because now one person is holding the entire family hostage with their actions and their emotions. And that is a really difficult place to be, especially as a parent, because if that's where you are, you have lost your parental authority. And we're not saying like authoritarian, but your your parental authority in the home.

And that is a really scary place to be, you know? Oh, I know. I mean- I don't need to tell you ... you can't all see me nodding, you know, if you're listening to this, but it absolutely does. And I would say I was definitely someone who ceded all my authority to my kids. Yeah. I was so afraid of the blowout, so that impacted boundary setting and then hear my husband be at work all day, 

[00:24:00] and I'd be home, and he'd come home, and he'd be the heavy, and then that kind of put a wedge between us because I just can't impart... Well, I think most people know, if you're listening to this, you know what it's like, 'cause you're living, you might be living in that now, and it was really awful place to be.

Yeah and I didn't realize, I guess, how impactful it was on our home because it just kind of seemed normal, too. We had done it for so long that this kind of seemed, what we did in a normal state. Yeah. You know? It does kind of creep up on you, and then it comes to a point where you're like, "Wait a minute.

Why- ... why is the entire world spinning around this one human being who is all of, you know, 16 years old or 23 years old or whatever it is?" So that's what we're gonna be talking about today is how, why it's so important to have emotional sturdiness, 

[00:25:00] durability. I decided when I was sort of drafting this outline for us not to call it emotional regulation because I think that term gets overused, and what we see in our community is, I do think it's, yes, regulation is great, right?

Like, oh, I can regulate my emotions, but, and you have to have a level of durability, stamina, sturdiness- Mm-hmm ... to plant your feet In a way that you can have a young person raging at you and- Right ... not pick up the rope with them, right? To- For sure ... hold the boundary where my son would, was the master, and I know all of your kids are the same, the 

[00:26:00] master of making me feel like, well, I mean, he didn't really do what I asked him to do, but now he's presenting it back to me in a way that makes me kinda feel like maybe I should give in.

Like, maybe I should give him the money that I said I was gonna give him even though it doesn't, he didn't really do the thing. I, and you're just like And so while emotional regulation, yes, of course. But we wanted to convey the fact that we understand how hard it is, and that it really is more about this sturdiness and durability and the ability to deal with situations that most people don't have to deal with

because we know y'all are SEAL Team parents, and you're out- Yeah ... there doing the things that no parent has to do. So anyway, that's why we're calling it that, if you're wondering. But we thought we'd first just talk about how 

[00:27:00] our emotional state is such a critical element of helping our kids and sometimes I think that can get overlooked because we're like, "I gotta find the right therapist.

I need to find the therapist who has a specialty in addiction and eating disorders and OCD," or whatever like- That's right ... we're looking for the unicorn therapist or the right program, or we are trying to craft the perfect set of boundaries or the perfect home contract, which we would call an agreement and what we're not realizing is that if you want to make an impact quickly and in a very healthy way, your emotional regulation and sturdiness is probably what we would call, like, frontline to-do on the to-do list, right?

[00:28:00]  For sure. Yeah, 'cause it impacts all those other things, right? When you don't believe in what you're saying, right, that comes through to your kids. Yeah. Right? They like, you talk about Enzo being able to really turn things around, or whatever that is, and my kids were brilliant at that.

Yeah. And I realize today it's because they saw, I don't wanna call it weakness, 'cause I don't like that term, but- Right ... they saw maybe that I didn't have the confidence in what I was presenting myself, right? Yeah. And so it really was for me this big learning moment to realize, aha what do I need to do for myself?

How do I calm those voices in my head? What do I need to do to get out and for me, like I wasn't doing anything. I might have been exercising, but I'll tell you this, every single time I showed up at Orange Theory, I would dedicate my workout 

[00:29:00] to my kids. Mm. And I was thinking about them the entire time. I was thinking about, is this addiction? Is this really serious mental health? What is it? Yeah. And so I was constantly in my head about my kids' situation instead of thinking, "I'm getting stronger. I'm clearing out my brain. I'm doing all of those things." I should have dedicated those workouts to me.

Right. Right? Yeah. But I didn't. Yeah but that takes us a different focus, right, that we're talking about. It does. It requires you to kind of step back a notch from- Yeah ... being right in the middle of the moment. And what we really love about this idea of emotional sturdiness is that it is 100% in your control. Because we spend so much time in this experience not being in control of things. Like, we are not in control of 

[00:30:00] whether they show up for work or not, or whether they show up for school or not, or whether they show up for court. Whatever it is, like, we are just not in charge of that. This is something that we are 100% in control of, and it has a huge impact on our kids.

So it's kind of like low-hanging fruit. If you're looking for something where you're saying, "I have got to make a change," this is one of those things that we would really recommend. Because there's sort of another side to this which is when we are not emotionally sturdy and regulated and stable and grounded, it adds this level of unpredictability for our kids.

And their world is already incredibly unpredictable and unstable, as we know, right? They're not in a great place from a mental health standpoint. They're using substances, 

[00:31:00] which adds all kinds of elements of risk to their day-to-day things Yeah and when we are emotionally unstable, like you said, like, "I don't like what's gonna happen when I approach my mom," that means- Mm-hmm

we're just adding to an already unstable situation. So- Mm-hmm ... that's kind of the flip side of this is, yes, this is really good for you. It's really good to get in touch, and we're gonna talk a little bit about how you can start to work on this. But just know that the reason why this work that you can do on yourself is so powerful is because it's gonna truly impact your child.

And I think we've all had a situation. I had a boss at one time that was, I would say, pretty emotionally unstable. Like, I never knew who she was gonna be when I went into her office. And- Right. Right ... it was 

[00:32:00] so stressful. Even if it was just something kind of benign that I was walking into her office to talk about, I was always kind of, like, taking the temperature, right?

Like, how have I seen her interact with other people today, and has she had lunch yet? I mean, I would literally, like, time my interactions with her after lunch, 'cause I was like, "Okay, I don't wanna hit her when she's hungry." She was a smoker. This is back ... This is a long time ago- ... like when you could- Back when smoking happened

smoke in your office. Right and that is a terrible place to be when you are ... Like, I was fine, but I knew that she might not be fine. And ugh. I was just gonna say, I love that you brought that up, Brenda, 'cause truly, like, we can't always, as parents, I mean, it's really hard when you're in the thick of it with your kids. It's really hard sometimes to put ourselves in our kids' shoes, 

[00:33:00] right? Because whatever we bring to the situation with mental health and substance use, right, our history kind of can really taint how we get in their shoes, right? So it's a very difficult thing to do- Yeah ... is what I'm trying to say. But you bringing up the situation with your boss, I think is something that many of us can identify with and resonate with.

Maybe you've had a friend where you've had to talk about a really awkward situation with or something else, and you really think about those situations and think, "How is this person going to receive me when I come up?" I might be okay with it, but I'm not really sure how they're gonna receive me, so that does bring up so much emotion around it and, you know, makes you feel like, "I'm not sure I even really wanna go to this person." And then of course maybe the situation with the person that you worked with worked 

[00:34:00] out and it feels so good to know that, "Oh wow, that, that really turned out okay," and you hope that improves over time, right? So- Yeah ... in the long way of saying that's what we're trying to get to that space ourselves, so our kids feel they can come to us in a place they know what to expect when they come to us, I guess.

Right and we just wanna recognize that we know how hard that is because- Mm-hmm ... everybody comes at this from their own experience. So- Right we have the honor, we consider it a sacred honor of kind of walking this journey with so many of our members in the community and so we see what you are showing up with.

You are showing up with potential abuse in your past, a parent who had a substance use disorder just an unsafe home in general, or the loss of a sibling, or the loss of a parent, right? There's just so many things that- Right ... you bring in 

[00:35:00] your luggage of life, and then when your kiddo starts going off the rails and is at risk and is unhealthy, your luggage is gonna impact how you experience that. And so, of course, it's gonna be hard to show up calm, cool, collected, sturdy, and stable if you're- Yeah ... coming at this with a lot of trauma of your own and so that's why we always, if at all possible, would love for people to be working with a therapist in addition to, like in our community, we're not doing that one-on-one therapy with you as far as like going back in your past and looking at why is this, why am I responding in this way, and maybe looking at your attachment style.

That is work that you need to do with your own therapist. We can help you then take that information and say, "Okay, if you're coming at this with anxious attachment as sort of your attachment profile, here's what that could look like 

[00:36:00] in how you respond." But we just wanna recognize that we're not over here like Pollyanna going, "Oh, just be calm. Just be calm." You know? I can imagine. Oh, my gosh. I would laugh you out the door if you'd come to me- Yes ... 10 years ago, 11 years ago. Yeah, okay. It's not that simple. Not that simple. So we know that it takes work. Yeah. We are responsible for managing our emotional responses. And- Yeah ... so it might mean that you have to do some really uncomfortable work to get to a place where you can be that thoughtful, regulated, sturdy person because It's just, it's not natural to be calm, cool, and collected when your kid is struggling. It's just not. So, Yeah ... the other thing, I think, that we see, too, that takes work to be able to have this kind of more sturdy response is 

[00:37:00] to at least have some level of sync with your co-parent, whether that's a spouse, a partner, an ex, whoever it is, because that alone can cause a lot of dysregulation.

It really can. Yeah. It's, you know, if if your kid goes to their other parent's home and it's a completely different set of rules or boundaries or whatever, that is super confusing and stressful. So that's another situation that requires much work. Boy, that's like, I don't know, SEAL teams have levels, but that really does require even higher level of parenting.

Because we also recognize that there are some situations that you just can't be in sync with a co-parent. Yeah. And that that can be really, really tough. Yeah. So give yourself a lot of grace there and again, 

[00:38:00] just know that doing that difficult work will pay off in the end just for yourself and everything else. Because this is all so difficult but really, we've talked before on the podcast how it affects your mental health, but also your physical health and I think we both went through that, too. So- Yeah ... we don't say any of this lightly, but mainly from experience. Because we really went down some really tough roads to get to a different place, so.

Yeah. Yeah, just know that if you are anxious, if you are frustrated, if all the things that you are, that truly is contagious. And so the more you can do to get to a place where, you know, you're not gonna be like I was with my former boss, like tiptoeing around going, "Ooh," like, "What's it gonna be today?

Who am I gonna get when I walk through the door?" We just 

[00:39:00] don't wanna burden our kids with that, right? They're already dealing with so much. So what does becoming emotionally sturdy look like? What did that look like for you? Like, what was your journey toward getting more sturdy in your emotional responses?

You know, a few things. I had to really learn what a boundary was, honestly. I had to learn that boundaries were for me and not controlling my kids. I really didn't know what those were. So that was one thing and recognizing the importance of my own care. Hmm. You know? But it really started with boundaries.

So I would say that I prioritized myself. I prioritized if I had scheduled a walk with a friend or a coffee or something like that and there was a mini little thing going 

[00:40:00] on with my kids, but it could have waited, I'd prioritize that. I said, "Okay, I'll be there in an hour," or whatever that is.

And so just getting right with myself and spending that time. I also have to say that I really got great at questioning a lot of the things that were going on when I started to spiral or get into things. I had to ask myself, "Is this true?" Mm. "And if it is true, do I have control over it?" Mm-hmm.

"And do I need to sit here, you know, spiraling about it? Or can I just..." You know, that's usually my sign when things are kinda getting a little off that my practices aren't where they should be. I have a pretty strong faith practice where I use a lot of prayer. I bookend my days in the morning and the evening with prayer and gratitude, and I noticed just even a couple 

[00:41:00] weeks ago that practice was off. My physical movement was off because I had gotten sick, and so I wasn't able to do the things I did and so my brain started to spiral for no reason at all really. Right. Like, and it was crazy. So I have to really be good about asking myself, getting in my brain again, but for me, not for anyone else.

Yeah. Yeah. What about you? I would say, this is gonna sound a little weird, but I would say that what really helped me was some education about what addiction really is. Yeah. Because when I read Beyond Addiction, and up until that point I was just completely baffled about how this could have happened.

You know, it just made no sense to me and so- Yeah ... I felt more regulated when I understood what was going on in my kid's body. So that was super helpful and 

[00:42:00] then I think the other thing that really helped me was just realizing that just because something had happened didn't mean I had to respond to it at that time. Right and it gave me a chance to cool down, to ask myself some questions. And we just did two self-coaching question episodes, we'll put a link in the show notes, that I didn't have obviously at the time. But I did know enough to step away and say, "Okay, this probably is not the time for me to deal with this.

Let me cool down, let him cool down, and then come back and approach it." So I would say those things helped me not be so crazy reactive. And I don't know that I was ever really like a stable... Like, I think my son probably never knew what he was coming home to. I never really got that under control. Again, I did not learn any of this until after he 

[00:43:00] was much better, so he survived and is thriving despite me. But I do remember feeling a little bit more regulated after I learned Just like got a little book smart, you know? Mm-hmm. Beyond Addiction, we'll put a link in the show notes. Hands down the one book that we would- Oh my gosh

recommend you reading. Yes. And then the workbook and the workbook is really good. And the workbook. Get the book. We will put- Yeah, yeah ... put links in the show notes to both of those. So I think those probably were the ones just with absolutely zero help that- ... that I would say did help me. But if you're wanting to come up with some things, we would obviously, like Cathy said, say like get on top of your own mental and physical health. People seem to think that that is a nice to have, or like, "I will do that when..." Dot, dot, dot. 

[00:44:00] Yeah. My kid goes to treatment. My kid is one month sober. My kid is one year sober. You know, whatever it is we tend to put that out in the future. That will make a world of difference, just prioritizing your physical health and your mental health.

And again, if you can get connected with a therapist, it doesn't have to be forever, but find ways to deal with that so that you're not bringing that to the table with them, really finding ways to deal with your past issues, if that's something that you are bringing, a lot of trauma and pain.

EMDR is great for that. Yes ... we haven't talked about brain spotting very much, but I was actually just with some folks this past weekend, and there was a therapist, and she was talking about brain spotting. And there's just some really incredibly effective and great tools out there from a therapeutic standpoint that you can tap into.

[00:45:00]  Neurofeedback- Neurofeedback ... is amazing. Cognitive behavioral therapy. I mean- Yeah ... there's so much out there. It's incredible all the resources, and when you look, it's, you will find them, especially on the trauma side. There's so much that is there. Yeah. That doesn't mean you have to relive all that trauma, by the way.

Right. So if you're really holding back because your history holds a lot of trauma and we understand that fear around it, just know that these modalities that are there are successful for a reason, and they don't necessarily mean that you've got to really relive all of that, you know? Right. And it's super helpful. Because it impacts your brain, right? All this trauma that you've gone through- Mm-hmm ... does impact our brain, and our brain, it's stored in our cells and everything else. So it's... And that's a whole other episode obviously. Yeah, that is. But I'm glad that you said that, because I think people do think, "Oof, man, I'm just not 

[00:46:00] ready to go back and relive all of that." And- Yeah ... there, even with EMDR, yes, you do kind of go into a memory or a situation, but the way that you do it is not scary. It doesn't, it's not like you're reliving that. And sometimes I think people also don't know that there is way more than just talk therapy. So- Mm-hmm ... somatic practices, equine therapy.

Like, there's so many different ways now that, if you haven't looked into it for a while, just maybe go to Psychology Today or whatever and start looking at what options there are. 'Cause there's, there's a lot. Yeah. For sure. But I think all of this starts with an an awareness of your dysregulation. 'Cause if you're not aware that you are bringing like topsy-turvy energy to a room then it's kind of hard to 

[00:47:00] know that you need to change anything. Do you know what I mean? Like- Yeah, for sure. I remember going to work when all of this was going on in the background, and I would show up at work, and they must have thought I was just crazy because I had no tools to regulate my own stress and distress.

And so I just, like, dumped everything on the table, and it was not pretty. So I think there is just a level of awareness to sort of do a body scan and see, like, where is this showing up in me? Is it in my chest? Do my hands get tingly? Does my head start throbbing? Does my throat get tight?

Like, just think about, where do I feel this in my body when I'm either scared or when I have to confront something, or if I need to make a decision or a request, or I need to say, "No, you didn't do the thing, so therefore I am not going to pay you." There was... 

[00:48:00] I'm thinking of a specific situation where Enzo- Yeah, you might as well tell the situation. I know. It's just so embarrassing. We've brought it up a couple times. No, it's so embarrassing. Enzo said, of course, he was wanting money. This was when he was probably 15 or so, and I was so dumb. I installed black carpet in the stairs that went down to our basement, thinking that that would hide whatever

yeah. Well, little did I realize that black carpet just shows everything and, you know, anything that isn't black, basically. So anyway- Yeah ... the stairs were always just a mess, and so he kind of knew that this was a place where he might be able to, like, swoop in. And so he offered to vacuum the stairs for $10.

Okay. So, you know, I'm like, "Okay, fine." And I knew I shouldn't have said fine. I knew I should have said no, but I didn't wanna deal with the backlash, so I said, "Okay, fine. I'll pay you $10 to vacuum the stairs." And he kind 

[00:49:00] of vacuumed the stairs. Not really. I would say they were, like, 30%- ... vacuumed. And so then he gets done, and he comes up, and of course, the vacuum is still sitting at the bottom of the stairs.

The cord is all wound around everything, and he's like, "Okay, where's my $10?" And I so just wanted to say, "No." "This is not a job well done." Yeah. "It's not complete." Yeah. "The vacuum is still sitting out. I asked you to put it away, right? Like, all the things." But what did I do? You wanted to avoid any conflict, so you said, "Here's your $10.

Get out of the house." Yes, ma'am. I did. Yes. That is what I did. Get that. We understand that. Because I was not emotionally sturdy. Yeah. I was just at the whim of his emotions. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, full confession, that's what we're talking about maybe we 

[00:50:00] should rename the podcast Full Confession. Yes, we should. We definitely should. So anyway, start with that awareness. Just know that it's gonna show up in your body, and then that is your telltale sign to start, you know, like, have some practices in your back pocket that you can go to, whether that's movement or the right food or some water or calling a friend or if you're in the stream- Breathe

tap into your friends in the stream or whatever yeah, that's so good because I think that the breathing, I remember you talking about years ago. Mm-hmm. And that is also a quick tell for me that I may feel like, "Well, I don't think I'm really feeling dysregulated right now."

And then you realize when you start breathing and doing some really intentional deep breathing in for four, out for four, box breathing, whatever sounds good. If you've never done anything, just start with intentional breathing- Yeah ... and counting as you breathe in 

[00:51:00] and releasing. If you feel better after that doing maybe 10 breaths that is your sign that things were probably not where you thought they were before. Yeah. I mean, because I think sometimes we live in such a high state of emotional unsturdiness, right? That feels so normal, like we said earlier. So I love the idea of having those practices.

They really make a difference. It really does and you have to practice them because it won't come naturally. Yeah. So just practice- Yeah in low-stake situations where maybe you get really agitated when you drive at other drivers, like my husband- ... who just can't seem to imagine the way anybody would drive the way they do.

And use kind of those low-stake situations to practice some of this stuff so that when it comes to your kiddo and you're in one of those high-stake situations, you're like, "I got this. I know how to do this. I can handle the situation. I can handle whatever reaction I'm gonna get as long as 

[00:52:00] it's not a safety situation." And sometimes, like, in the moment, it might be a pause, like I said, when I would realize that there's no expiration date on when to deal with it, like I had time. It may require your lip clip. Depends on the situation. It may not, but it may and I think you can be really creative about it, too.

Sometimes people love to journal about stuff, or they like to sing, or they like to hop on their bike, or... You know, this can look a lot of different ways. This isn't, like, some crazy psychological game that you have to play with yourself. It's just- Yeah ... whatever gets you into a state where you feel more calm, you're able to think more clearly.

Because I don't know about you, but when I get into this kind of agitated state, I get immediate brain fog, and I cannot get my- Yeah ... words out. I can't think straight. I can't... Like I just feel dysfunctional, like I don't know what I'm doing, 

[00:53:00] and that's the worst feeling ever when you're trying to deal with something serious, you know? Yeah, the worst and it's so true and for me, one thing I do when I do feel that way, I get off all my screens because they just- Mm ... seem to aggravate it. I don't know. I've become really I, maybe it's just because we spend so much time on our screens these days anyway, but I notice that if I can step away and just put my phone down, go for a walk, and just really just not have anything, I feel so much better.

I guess I could just say that just stepping away from the screens helps my anxiety and everything else but I hear you on the brain fog. Oh my gosh. And if you're a menopausal woman, or pre-menopausal , you're already dealing with that, so you feel like you've got no brain cells left. So- Yeah just take care of yourself when it comes to that. Yes. Yes. So anyway, 

[00:54:00] hopefully this has been helpful. I think the other thing just to remember is in the moment, think of the bigger goal. Like, play the long game, because it's really easy to get caught up in the moment, right? Of the vacuuming of the stairs.

And For sure taking that longer view of like, "Yes, I may have to make an unpopular decision right now Yeah ... and he's gonna be pissed off, and he's... I don't..." Whatever, right? Like, and I can deal with that because I have been spending time regulating myself. So if you can just slow down enough to play that long game kind of we talk about getting up in the balcony seats.

Like take a few steps back, go up to the balcony seats, look down at the situation and say, "Can I make a decision that is gonna be better for the long term 

[00:55:00] versus whatever is gonna make things a little bit less painful right now?" That's probably the better decision and it's hard. Yeah. It's so hard to do. It's hard. It's so hard to do. Join us in the Stream because you will have so much support as you're going through this, 'cause it feels very isolating to do this and I promise you it just helps so much to have your community around you saying, "You can do this," and it, will make a big difference in the long run.

You know? Yeah. Just to just go ahead and do it. All right. Well, lovely talking. Anything else you wanna share- Oh ... before we jump off? Gosh. No, just hoping everybody has a kind of a calmer end of the summer. We know school's coming sooner than we think, and so really if you've been hesitating on trying out the Stream, just know you've got two weeks and we'd love to just show 

[00:56:00] you around and again, it's a no-cost way to see if this is something that fits for you. So we hope you come over- Yeah ... and join it. Hopestreamcommunity.org/try, T-R-Y. We'll get you, we'll get you hooked up with that great offer. Yep. And yeah, we'll see you soon. Good seeing you, Brenda. Bye.