How To Get Young People Ready for Real-World Sobriety, with Alex Zemeckis and Cannon Kristofferson

ABOUT THE EPISODE:

When your child transitions from treatment back into everyday life, the real work begins. Alex Zemeckis and Cannon Kristofferson, co-founders of The Grounds Recovery and Mare's House, know the terrain intimately—not from textbooks or theories, but from walking that precarious path themselves. Now, years into their own recovery journeys, they've built a rock solid sober living ecosystem that helps young adults navigate the delicate nuances of early sobriety while building sustainable, meaningful lives.

In this conversation, Alex and Cannon reveal why employment isn't just helpful but essential for young people in recovery, serving as both anchor and compass in those vulnerable early months. They understand the peculiar challenge of leaving treatment's protective bubble, only to face familiar streets, old phone numbers, and muscle memories that can pull a young person back to past patterns. Their approach? Get young adults integrated into real community fabric immediately—working, contributing, encountering actual triggers while building the mental fortitude to navigate them. No therapeutic bubble, no artificial safety—just supported practice at living.

After years of working with young adults struggling with substances and mental health, they've noticed the themes that persist: the hunger for genuine connection, the need for purpose beyond sobriety itself, and the surprising power of peer mentorship from those who've earned their wisdom through lived experience and formal education. Their perspective offers something rare—credibility born from personal transformation coupled with professional dedication to helping others architect their own recovery.

When you listen, you'll learn:

• Why meaningful employment serves as recovery's most underutilized tool and how work provides structure that therapy alone cannot 
• The specific vulnerabilities young adults face when transitioning from treatment to home environments (and practical strategies for navigating them) 
• How peer support from those with lived experience creates a different quality of trust and accountability than traditional counseling 
• The common patterns Alex and Cannon observe across hundreds of young adults—and why these patterns actually offer hope 
• Their unconventional approach to community integration that prioritizes real-world practice over extended therapeutic cocooning

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• The Grounds Recovery website
• Mare's House website (women's sober living)

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
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Transcript

Cannon: I have yet to meet a family, whether it's mom and dad, whoever it may be, that hasn't done everything with the best intention possible to help their child, their loved one. You know? So stuff gets outta whack. We do stuff that we think 'cause we don't know what else to do. And living in the shoulda, coulda, woulda, or shame or this, it's like, hey, it's constantly about being willing to learn.

And again, look at other perspectives, being willing to go and look and go, okay, 'cause no one's doing it right or wrong. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, you've tried everything. Maybe it's trying to try something different. And being willing to listen, just keeping open-minded will get you farther than anything else.

[00:00:50] Brenda Zane: Welcome to Hopestream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my [00:01:00] own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless. You are not helpless, and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources at hopestreamcommunity.org.

[00:01:22] Brenda Zane: Hi, friend. Thanks for hanging out with me today. I hope that you've done some breathing. If not, hit pause and take a few deep breaths. I also hope that you've had some water. Maybe you've been outside to get some fresh air in your lungs. This all sounds so basic, but even if you're here and you're kiddos in treatment or early recovery and doing really well.

[00:01:46] Brenda Zane: It is not uncommon to have your breath be super shallow and to ignore some of your body's Just most simple and critical needs like water and sunlight, and movement. [00:02:00] Today's show is so long overdue. It is almost embarrassing. Kathy, my co-founder and sometimes co-host here, has known and been in regular contact with my guests for mm, 10 years.

[00:02:16] Brenda Zane: Yes, 10 years, not months, but as I always say, things happen when they're supposed to. So I know that what you are gonna hear today from Alex Zemeckis and Cannon Kristofferson is exactly what you need to hear today. Alex and Cannon are the founders of the Grounds Recovery and Mare’s House, which are sober living programs for young adult men.

[00:02:44] Brenda Zane: The Grounds and Mare’s house and both are located in San Diego, California. They are both in long-term recovery from addiction and have been there, done that and probably a little bit more with [00:03:00] all the things that your child might be going through today. Alex has worked over a decade in the addiction treatment and mental health community, helping young folks find new ways to live.

[00:03:12] Brenda Zane: He earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from San Diego State University and a Master's degree in Spiritual Psychology from the University of Santa Monica. Alex has worked in various direct care and administrative roles, including sober coaching and companion work, admissions, business development and outreach, and as a residential mentor for a prominent treatment program in Colorado, Alex maintains a strong presence within the recovery world as a featured speaker.

[00:03:40] Brenda Zane: He shares his experience, strength, and hope with those still struggling with addictions as president of both the Grounds and Mare's house. Alex personally oversees the admissions and business development departments of both programs. Cannon Kristofferson was raised in San [00:04:00] Diego and has over 15 years experience working in the recovery community.

[00:04:05] Brenda Zane: His extensive experience includes direct work with at-risk young adults through the city of San Diego, supporting veterans who are suffering from co-occurring substance use disorders, PTSD and other mental health issues and individual client work within the L-G-B-T-Q community where he received important trauma, ethics and tolerance training.

[00:04:27] Brenda Zane: Cannon graduated with honors from the University of California at San Diego's Drug and Alcohol Certification program. Anne has been a leader in addressing the opioid epidemic by offering his knowledge and expertise to the FBI and San Diego's opioid addiction Task Force. Now, let me tell you a little secret about Alex and Cannon that they did not mention in the episode.

[00:04:54] Brenda Zane: These two guys, when they got into recovery at fairly young ages. Could have [00:05:00] easily tapped into their well-connected Hollywood film and music families and moved on with their lives. Yes, you can Google their names and find out more about that, but they didn't. They decided to send the elevator back down and bring up those who are currently struggling.

[00:05:19] Brenda Zane: Something that is not easy or glamorous, but something they both felt called to do. I think it makes them. The entire team at the Grounds in Mare's house, incredibly special. We had a wide ranging conversation and talked about what they're seeing in young people now versus 13 years ago when they started the grounds, what the differences are in 18 to 24 year olds versus those who are 25 to 30 and working to get into recovery.

[00:05:49] Brenda Zane: What the commonalities are in all the young people they work with, regardless of their substance use. Why they place so much emphasis on vocational [00:06:00] programming, even if a young person doesn't need to or want to work. It is such a special discussion. I can't wait for you to meet my friends. And two absolutely beautiful humans, Alex Zemeckis and Cannon Kristofferson of the Grounds Recovery and Mare's House.

[00:06:18] Brenda Zane: Enjoy.

[00:06:26] Brenda Zane: Hey guys, so awesome to have you, Alex and Cannon. I think we always see, we see each other in person at least a couple times a year, which is lovely. So this is, 

[00:06:35] Speaker: yes, 

[00:06:35] Brenda Zane: I think actually my first time ever seeing you on Zoom, which is the opposite of how it usually is. So this is on. Yes. 

[00:06:42] Speaker 3: Brenda, thank you so much for having us.

[00:06:44] Speaker 3: We're so grateful to be on your podcast, so 

[00:06:46] Speaker: been looking forward to it. 

[00:06:48] Brenda Zane: Yes, we've talked about it and how in the world we haven't done it yet. I don't know how that's possible, but anyway, we're doing it now because you, the Grounds and Mare's house is probably one of the programs that we [00:07:00] interact with the most.

[00:07:01] Brenda Zane: Kathy and I do obviously for her son was with you guys. I was thinking today, was that like 10 years ago? 

[00:07:11] Speaker: Just about early beyond, just about, 

[00:07:13] Brenda Zane: yeah, you've had a lot of stuff under your belt since then, but I know that his time with you was obviously transformational. He is the one story that whenever somebody says relapses, it's part of the thing.

[00:07:26] Brenda Zane: It always happens. I'm like, actually, I know one that's not, 

[00:07:30] Speaker 3: doesn't have to be. Doesn't have 

[00:07:32] Brenda Zane: to be. 

[00:07:32] Speaker 3: We love to hear that. We celebrate every success story, and Kathy son is definitely one of those. Through and through. Yeah. So that's fantastic. 

[00:07:41] Brenda Zane: Yeah, it is important. Like we were just saying before we started recording, no one size fits all and no one experience is the same.

[00:07:48] Brenda Zane: And so every time I hear that, I'm so glad that I know somebody who didn't actually, I know several people who didn't relapse because I think that's important to know. There isn't a [00:08:00] template for this. There's just not for sure. I mean, if anybody knows that, you guys know that. 

[00:08:06] Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think Ken and I, we definitely.

[00:08:09] Speaker 3: Believe in, uh, I don't wanna say a certain way of doing things, but we have a prescription of how to address certain things, especially after the years that we've been doing this. But even when we have this platform or this script or this model to walk parents and clients through, there's still the individuation, right?

[00:08:28] Speaker 3: It's all, there is no one size of fits all. Nope. There's, and that's actually getting more prevalent, which I'm sure we can talk about. 

[00:08:36] Brenda Zane: Yes. Why don't you, we could spend two hours just on your stories alone. Easy. Which we might have to do it another time because we don't have two hours. However, I would, I think it'd be helpful for people just to hear 'cause you're both in long-term recovery.

[00:08:52] Brenda Zane: You actually started the grounds started ma house. So Mare's house, sorry. I always say that wrong. And [00:09:00] it's so encouraging for parents because. If somebody's listening, they're, they probably have a kid who's in it or maybe they're in treatment and they cannot see. The fast forward story of my kid could end up doing something like this.

[00:09:16] Brenda Zane: I don't know. Alex, if you wanna start or can and just give us like the Cliff noes version of your story and how the Grounds and Mare's House came to be. 

[00:09:25] Speaker 3: No, I'd be happy to, because it's definitely important as far as how we've gotten to where we are today. Just quick background, I grew up. In Santa Barbara, very privileged area and had a very kind of unique family.

[00:09:40] Speaker 3: Basically grew up in a Hollywood family, and I was an only child, and so it was not typical. And my parents, they put me through quite a few programs as an adolescent. I did wilderness treatment, I did adolescent RTCs, therapeutic boarding schools, kind of everything, you name it. And it was this [00:10:00] continuation of.

[00:10:01] Speaker 3: Go to a program and coming home and blowing up, then going to a program and coming, and this was before there was like therapeutic high schools other than therapeutic boarding school. And throughout that journey, obviously that was planted a lot of seats for me and then got into San Diego State miraculously with terrible grades and horrible SAT scores.

[00:10:19] Speaker 3: I had a great story of my recovery journey. That's what relocated me to San Diego and finally hit rock bottom and got sober. When I was a junior in college and I was 22 years old, I really got plugged into the recovery community of La Jolla here, which is just totally right up my alley. Amazing surf community, tons of young people.

[00:10:42] Speaker 3: It's just I felt like I was home, and so that's where I met Cannon and we started connecting and hanging out. Getting coffee and going for surfs after meetings and things like that. And we started kicking around this idea of, Hey, what do you think about doing a program? And [00:11:00] so that was how Cannon and I synergys happened, and we really wanted to create something that was needed for when we were young adults because we were starting to see a lot of stuff that was happening in the Southern California area that we just.

[00:11:15] Speaker 3: We didn't necessarily want to do that. We wanted to take a different approach and, and that was, I can't keep trying. I was 12 years ago now, almost 13, and, and then we started Mare's house about a handful of years ago, four years ago. But that's how Ken and I came up together and I'll let Ken share his piece.

[00:11:34] Speaker 3: But 

[00:11:34] Brenda Zane: yeah. 

[00:11:35] Speaker 3: Thanks Alex. 

[00:11:36] Speaker: I, it just brings back some really cool memories for me. Thinking of those early conversations, and I grew up here in San Diego and I'm a little older, a little longer in the tooth. I was in the Nancy Reagan era of just saying no. My parents didn't know what the heck to do with me as a teenager, getting caught smoking weed and coming home drunk from weekend parties.

[00:11:58] Speaker: And pretty quickly I [00:12:00] was sent to treatment and at 15, the first time I went to treatment and followed by wilderness. And I went to wilderness. This is again late eighties wilderness, which was a very different Yeah. World. Yeah. Than today. I'm still a firm believer in good wilderness treatment and endorse it.

[00:12:20] Speaker: At the time when Alex and I, my journey was pretty typical, other than that, it was, again, periods of sobriety by ever more significant consequences due to my. Using. Yeah. And I talk often of, I got outta treatment with very good intents and purposes of wanting to stay sober, but I went right back to the same high school.

[00:12:40] Speaker: I went right back to the same place. Yep. And as a adolescent, it was pretty difficult. The first party I went to, it was okay. I didn't really. No, really what else to do. So fast forward, I ended up later in life getting interested in doing this [00:13:00] professionally and ended up going back to school and just really falling in love with it and working with the families and the young people and.

[00:13:09] Speaker: Alex and I were friends. I was working actually for the county doing some case management and a substance abuse counseling for through the county of San Diego. I'd been at the VA for a while and then was working for the county and Alex. We would talk about what great treatment we got as adolescents, but really the follow up.

[00:13:27] Speaker: You know what? Then we learned how to. Hike or repel or fly fish and be out in the woods and be abstinent, being removed from places. And then we'd come back to our real lives. And even with good intention, like I said, we'd fall back 

[00:13:44] Speaker 3: yeah, 

[00:13:44] Speaker: into it. And the consequences just started getting more and more significant.

[00:13:49] Speaker: So when we talked about doing this, I just really aligned with Alex's vision and what he saw as far as wanting it to be something really like real life based and getting these guys not doing the [00:14:00] shuffle back and forth and we wanted him to get out there. Yeah. And here we are. This was later probably one of my favorite stories from early on was we were moving in to the house of the, where you've been, the primary residence of the main grounds house.

[00:14:13] Speaker: And we were literally Alex and I carrying in boxes of furniture. We were setting the house up and a woman pulled up and said, we hear that you're putting a rehab in our neighborhood and this and that, and we invited her into the house and we sat her down and I said, I grew up here. This is my background.

[00:14:30] Speaker: And within 20 minutes it had switched. And she was telling us about her niece and the struggles her niece was going through and I said, here's my cell phone. And I love, over the years, the stigma attached to, and I think of my own mom and dad who. Probably didn't tell their closest friends. Yeah. About what was going on with me who was very kept close to the chest.

[00:14:51] Speaker: And that was not something like my kid's struggling, my kid's having these issues. It was very much we put on the face that everything's good. And [00:15:00] so again, getting rid of that stigma. And I think that if they have the opportunity to find some other people going through it, that's what's really cool about what you guys are doing too, being able to connect people that are going through it because.

[00:15:14] Speaker: Just like the person suffering with alcoholism or addiction issues. The big message is you're not alone. You don't have to do this alone. 

[00:15:21] Brenda Zane: Yeah, same. 

[00:15:23] Speaker: It goes both ways. 

[00:15:24] Brenda Zane: Same. It seems so true. We heal for sure. We heal in community and that goes for parents as well. That's fascinating. I just, I would've loved to have been a fly of the wall here and you guys talk about maybe we could do this and it's, I think it's really special because not everybody ends up.

[00:15:40] Brenda Zane: Doing what you guys did, right? A lot of people go through what you did. They go through treatment and then they move on and they do their life and they become a real estate agent or whatever. So I think it's really special when two people get that passion and that bug of we can do this and we can probably do it better than, you know, what we've seen out [00:16:00] there.

[00:16:00] Brenda Zane: Or we're filling a hole and I can't agree more With that gap at 17, we really see 17 is just the year of hell because. They're no longer 16 and you can't hold the driver's license over their head. And 18 is right around the corner and I'm gonna be outta here. Right? Like I'm never gonna talk to you guys again.

[00:16:20] Brenda Zane: I 

[00:16:20] Speaker: have a 16-year-old. I know 

[00:16:23] Brenda Zane: that 17th year. Oh man. We see parents just struggling through that year. 'cause the kids are just a hot mess. And then they link with you. And it's hard because 

[00:16:36] Speaker: you're limited into options too. You're limited into options. They're not an adult yet, so there's several programs that you're really relegated to adolescent programs that may or may not be providing what they may really need that they could get maybe at an adult program, but they won't even, they can't go yet.

[00:16:54] Speaker: So it's really a tough time all around. 

[00:16:56] Brenda Zane: It's 

[00:16:56] Speaker: so tough. 

[00:16:57] Brenda Zane: And I think what you said, and I know you're both [00:17:00] big believers in. Real life and you guys are just in a neighborhood in San Diego. And it's funny 'cause when my son finally did all the things that he did and then he had to get out of Seattle and he moved to San Diego and people were like, are you crazy?

[00:17:16] Brenda Zane: Like San Diego, that's where all the drugs come in from Mexico. They just thought I was out of my mind to let him move to San Diego and it's, you're gonna find whatever you're gonna find, wherever you're gonna find it. His problem was finding it in Seattle. Other people have a problem finding it in San Diego, so I love that people are in your community, are in the community.

[00:17:38] Brenda Zane: You're just in a neighborhood. It's not like you're out in the middle of nowhere. And what do you see when guys come to you and they're in that environment? Are they like, what? I'm just out here. What's that experience like for them to land in? 

[00:17:55] Speaker: I would say sometimes, yeah. I mean, we've get a lot of guys from OUTTA state, right?

[00:17:59] Speaker: Yeah, for sure. [00:18:00] So we do get quite a few men and women that are coming to us, not from, not only not San Diego, but not even California. So we get a lot of clients. There are some cool moments where I think they see and go get in the ocean. That's a few blocks away from us and they get, and maybe not that they haven't been in the ocean before, but that experience of being sober with other peers, that kind of vibe of going, oh, whoa, I'm here having fun, just being in my body.

[00:18:32] Speaker: Some of that is really cool to see. 

[00:18:35] Speaker 3: And at the same, it's like the greatest place for a young adult to live in regards to. Appeal and you have young people biking, skating on the boardwalk. You got surf healthy at lifestyle, cool restaurants. Yeah. 

[00:18:49] Speaker: So yeah. It's funny. We'll get somebody who's coming that has, uh, dietary restrictions.

[00:18:53] Speaker: I said, you're coming to San Diego. Every restaurant has a vegan allergy free. [00:19:00] Like you don't go to a restaurant where there isn't every option on the, 

[00:19:02] Brenda Zane: I can attest to that. 

[00:19:04] Speaker: Yes. It's awesome. 

[00:19:06] Brenda Zane: I'm curious because you've been at this for a minute or two. That, and we were talking before we started recording that sort of every family thinks that their situation is unique, and it is to some degree, right?

[00:19:17] Brenda Zane: There's obviously nuances to everybody's story, but when you see the trend over a decade, when you see young guys and now you're seeing young ladies, but what are the struggles different? Or is it just like a different environment and the same struggle? I'm super curious about that 'cause. I think we get really wrapped up in what's happening today and then there was COVID and then there's social media and then there's the, but I would love to hear from you, maybe Alex you can start with like when you think back to when you started and what you're seeing now, what are some of the sameness and the differences that you see?

[00:19:56] Speaker 3: Yeah. Can our laughing at each other through the screens here because it, it [00:20:00] has, there has been a big shift, Brenda, for sure. And there's, the presentation is definitely shifting. It's not right or wrong, it just is. The truth is though, what we're doing and what we're treating and what we're addressing, even though these presentations are different, the issues aren't really going away that are underneath everything.

[00:20:20] Speaker 3: So what, I'll get a little more specific about this. I think just over the handful with the COVID epidemic and just smartphones and what, I love the term doom scrolling. Like where you're just scrolling doom scrolling. Right. All that stuff is culminated into just a different profile. And before any of that, like my experience of being an adolescent or a young adult in their program, I had to seek that out outside elsewhere.

[00:20:49] Speaker 3: I had to get that stimulus out in the community by raising hell. And these guys don't need to do that. They raise hell in the palm of their [00:21:00] hand, and so. We're still a failure to thrive program. Helping guys achieve real life skills and feel esteemed acts through self-esteem work, but we just don't have guys pushing the curfew till or staying out late as much.

[00:21:18] Speaker 3: They want to go and do their activities, do their programming, go to work, come back from the 12 step meeting and get home and go right on their devices. That's their go-to. So. That's been the different sort of paradigm shift that we've been seeing. And like I said, we still need to, our curriculum hasn't changed as a program, but can, and I have definitely seen a big shift in, to sum this up, it's like we went from containing kids that were in the raising hell in the community to now extracting them outta isolation and almost being like.

[00:21:51] Speaker 3: Maybe you should stay out, ask curfew a little bit. Not really. Yeah, yeah. But let's, so when you said, when teenagers get their driver's license at 17 and the first thought that [00:22:00] came to me was like, I'm glad they're getting a driver's license. Honestly. Yeah. From what we're seeing, Ken, I dunno if you want to touch on that, but 

[00:22:06] Speaker: the only piece that I wanted to add is it's so, like you said, there's this level of the things that have changed, but underneath it, a lot of it's the same.

[00:22:15] Speaker: Like some of the feelings that both the clients and the parents are going through. The situations or the behavior that's worrisome may have changed. We've ridden through opiate epidemic, prescription drug epidemic, a athletes coming in that were injured and getting prescribed Oxycontin and getting hooked onto more significant opiates to abusing prescription medication to COVID happening to.

[00:22:46] Speaker: A huge increase in marijuana induced psychosis through the roof of young guys that their campus closed down. They're no longer in their dorm room, they're back living with mom and dad. They're smoking [00:23:00] really potent weed. Terrible diet, terrible sleeping habits, playing video games, still three, four in the morning and then a psychotic break happens, and there's this fear of going, we need to tease out is this a more significant diagnosis, but underneath it all.

[00:23:15] Speaker: The fears, the concerns, the stresses, the anxiety. It's the same. It's really if you take a client from 12 years ago and a client now, the underneath stuff is the same. 

[00:23:28] Speaker 3: Yeah. I think what I hear Cannon saying is that even though the actions of the young adult is different, meaning like more isolation versus the raising hell stuff.

[00:23:39] Speaker 3: The parents' experience is still the same entirely can in a lot of ways. Yeah. And 

[00:23:44] Speaker: just that feeling of I don't know what to do and that kind of like don't know what to do. And that's a common thread and that's where some of that stuff of finding other people that are going through it, finding people that feeling like I'm not alone in this.

[00:23:57] Speaker: And being able to educate and empower yourself [00:24:00] as the parent of one of these young people that's going through it and really. Being open-minded to the idea of taking on different perspectives. Like I said to you before we started all this stuff I'm getting from your website, there's so much great information on there for families, and I'm just going, yes, that's what it's about.

[00:24:17] Brenda Zane: What are some of those, so you're saying the wrapper might look different, right? The presentation might look different, but the underlying issues are the same. Talk a little bit about what those are. What are some of the common denominators that you saw 10 years ago and today, again, with a different wrapper on it.

[00:24:34] Speaker: I wanna know what Alex thinks, but the first one that came to mind is going off what you were talking about with the phone a lot, and I've learned these terms. 'cause like I said, I have a teenager. The FOMO is real. Yeah. You get these young adults that see peers of theirs that are taking a gap year and they're in Europe, or they're doing this or that, or they're working or they're making money already and they're like.

[00:24:58] Speaker: So there's a lot of self [00:25:00] depreciation and really lack, there's feelings of self-worth, I think is something that I see underlying as a common, you know, how they feel about themselves getting some of that, that Alex and I, from the beginning of stress so hard on them, getting some good self-esteem, feeling good about stuff that our little wins adds up.

[00:25:20] Brenda Zane: Yeah. What do you see, Alex? 

[00:25:23] Speaker 3: Yeah. And that, I think what Cannon's talking about is also on a grand scale of what all adolescents and young adults are dealing with. I'm a huge fan of Scott Galloway and he talks about how everybody now with social media is able to see, like with Mr. Beast and all these characters, what a multi gazillionaire is on their phone.

[00:25:43] Speaker 3: Yeah. But before then it was like. We drive around the neighborhood and say, oh, that family has a nice car. That was their only perspective of what being a baller or any of these things mean. And so now it's not like kids can just have a check-in with their friend on the phone and be like, oh, what are you up to now?

[00:25:59] Speaker 3: Oh wow. [00:26:00] It's like they're seeing everything. So if I'm in a program and. My friends just graduated college on time and some of 'em have already retained a job outside of college, and I'm here in a program and I'm behind and I'm seeing them like living their life. That's just a facade 'cause it's social media.

[00:26:20] Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. I'm just gonna feel, I call that judging my insides to everybody's outsides. Yeah. Outer reflection of inner reality is, oh my goodness. It's such a. So 

[00:26:31] Speaker: we talk about a lot guys too that that come in and they, vocation is a big part of our program. We have everybody go out and seek part-time work because we think that in the scope of the whole package making right size pieces of fitness, your recovery piece, your mental health piece, your exercise piece, getting up and going to a job and having some purpose, whatever that may be, it's keeping everything right sized.

[00:26:55] Speaker: We get a lot of clients that come in and want to go, we call it zero to CEO. [00:27:00] They're really not in a place of being ready to go and say, oh yeah, I'll make your smoothies or work at the coffee shop. They're like, I'm gonna own these and have a bright green Lamborghini, like this guy on 

[00:27:10] Speaker 3: my, exactly. That's my point is that there's such a delusional disconnect of, you know, what everything looks like in between.

[00:27:19] Speaker 3: Yeah. And the struggle and the resilience that's needed for that to be achieved. I don't blame 'em. It's just, it's, it's tough to see that. And it's tough. It's like you have to be your own doom. Scroll mediator and monitor. I don't have social media for a reason, but I don't expect young people in this day and age to not, and just going back to Cannon's point of the vocation piece.

[00:27:40] Speaker 3: So that's been our thing from the beginning, and that goes back to the very beginning of us getting started as far as what did we need when we were 19 years old and. I get parents on the phone that are like, what's this deal about this part time job? What is it about the part-time job that you guys is so find so impactful?[00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Speaker 3: And the truth of the matter is, if I go and hit the pavement with a resume and I put in my resume and I land a job, whether it's the bike rental store, the smoothie shop, sprouts, groceries, and I get the callback and I get the second interview. That not only feels really good, but then I'm actually going to work.

[00:28:21] Speaker 3: I have coworkers. I have a schedule. I then have this thing called a paycheck where I have to figure out what a W2 is and set up a credit union to deposit it. Long story short, the part-time job piece teaches executive functioning skills better than volunteering and going to school. That's been our MO since the beginning.

[00:28:41] Speaker 3: We're not undermining any of the clinical work that we're doing. We're not undermining any of the awesome surf, adventure and ocean sports that we do, but it's just our hope is that we're gonna be this container and these, this safe kind of guardrail that these, we provide this curriculum for these guys [00:29:00] that they're gonna do this stuff long enough to where they're gonna wake up one morning, look at their schedule on the board in their room, and go, okay.

[00:29:07] Speaker 3: I gotta go to work today from 10 to four. I'm gonna do a workout this morning, and then I'm gonna go for a surf and hit the 12 step meeting or something like that. Hypothetical. They're gonna do that long enough to where it's, wow, that feels pretty good, and I wanna keep that going. Yeah, and that's honestly the best we can do.

[00:29:26] Speaker 3: And hoping that the parents don't intervene with their stuff and their anxieties and their kill. In the meantime. Yeah. And that's why, so it's, we're doing, we're working with two things. We're trying to provide that container for the young adult to achieve that. And then we're also working with the parents on the side to give them the space and to give the dignity of his or her process to achieve that.

[00:29:49] Brenda Zane: Yes. I'm so glad you said that because we talk quite a bit about, well, a young person's in treatment, if they're with Hope Stream, we're doing the [00:30:00] work to hopefully not have the parent unravel. All of the work that was done while they were in treatment, because we can do that. And I can say that because I did it myself.

[00:30:11] Brenda Zane: I was very successful at that. But what should families expect? Because that is so confusing. It's okay. They were just in the hospital or they were in wilderness therapy, or they were wherever, and now they're in this very structured, sober living environment, but. I don't know, should they be getting a job or should they be going to school?

[00:30:32] Brenda Zane: Should that happen in week two or week 12, or? What if they go out and they have a drink? Like it's such a mystery to us as parents. Yeah. What is, Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life changing for so many women who started right where you might be by listening to the show.

[00:30:52] Brenda Zane: If you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through, there is a place designed [00:31:00] specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers who are parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential.

[00:31:13] Brenda Zane: It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background.

[00:31:32] Brenda Zane: Both are perfect. It's not social media, it's genuine community. Focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery, you'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices because we know you wanna see positive change in your family.

[00:31:58] Brenda Zane: Check it [00:32:00] out@hopedreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay. Back to the show. 

[00:32:10] Speaker 3: And that's why we want parents to be as vulnerable as possible to us. Like we want parents to just basically filet themselves to us because we need to know what they're going through.

[00:32:22] Speaker 3: We're gonna have better outcomes if the parents. Call their case manager or call Cannon or call me and say, Hey, I'm really struggling with this directive that you guys are encouraging us to do. Right? This is what makes me feel, because it's one of the same here we are treating the young adult, but really 95% of it is the family work that's being done.

[00:32:44] Speaker 3: And so you can't do one without the other. I always say this, I say. I would way rather work with a young adult who's who presents very challenging, right? Maybe defiant, just a tough cookie with parents that are totally on [00:33:00] board with what we're doing versus a young adult who presents like a rockstar who's willing to do whatever it takes.

[00:33:06] Speaker 3: And I'll do it all with parents that are very ambivalent and maybe just don't trust the process or have guilt about it or. And that's okay too, but I'm just saying that's how important it is to have the family investment and the family buy-in. 

[00:33:22] Speaker: I think in going back to the, I just wanna say in something I offer your website, this idea of prioritizing your own wellbeing as a parent, I'll encourage families.

[00:33:32] Speaker: If they get a call, the client will call their parent and be telling them all the things they, why they don't need this, why they don't want to be here, they made me do this or that, or whatever it may be. I almost, I pretty much always coach parents to say, that sounds really tough. I'm sorry you're going through that.

[00:33:53] Speaker: I know you can figure it out. Love you. Talk to you next week. Yes. There is nothing that says I'm here for [00:34:00] you. More than believing that your kid can figure it out. Yes, because our natural instinct. For me as a parent is to be like, okay, let's get this handled. Yes, I'm gonna go in there and figure this out for 'em.

[00:34:14] Speaker: And by letting, especially young adults and going, oh man, that really sounds like a tough one. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'll have a client that goes and gets a job offer, but it doesn't work with our curriculum in housing, so they have to turn down a job here. We're telling 'em they have to go get a job, but it keeps them out past curfew or it makes them miss their required 12 step meetings, whatever it may be.

[00:34:37] Speaker: They'll call the family. Now, often the family will call us and be like, can you make an exception from them? And it's going, what if you left them sorted out? What if you empower them to go back to that employer and say, listen, I really wanna work here, but I have other constraints that I can only work these hours.

[00:34:56] Speaker: What a lesson for the young person to learn how to go back and [00:35:00] have a conversation and maybe get turned out. And I was gonna say also to Alex's thing. I get guys that come in and don't wanna work the bike shop rental place or whatever it may be. They're like, I want to do this and be making this much money.

[00:35:15] Speaker: When they get the call that they've been hired, it doesn't matter what the job is, the chest goes up, the smile, like the sense of pride when they get picked and they're chosen. It is a pretty powerful thing. It's really cool. A hundred percent. Yeah. And also 

[00:35:34] Brenda Zane: I think it feels great for parents. I know when my son got hired at Marshalls, it was like a stalker.

[00:35:42] Brenda Zane: Not a stalker, but like doing stalk. 

[00:35:44] Speaker: No. Yes. 

[00:35:45] Brenda Zane: Stalk boy. Yeah, stalk. I know what you meant. And that was actually in San Diego and I, it was like I was walking around like my son was the CEO of Boeing. Totally is this stock Foy at Marshalls because it [00:36:00] just shows like, uh, so many things had to happen to make that happen.

[00:36:04] Brenda Zane: They have to have the support around them. They have to have, I think, other people around them who are also working at the same thing so that they can then go back to the house and be like, high fives or bro, or whatever they do now. I don't know what the cool thing to do is. A hundred percent. It matters to them so much.

[00:36:23] Speaker: As parents, ultimately our job is to prepare them to go out there into this world that we know is tough, is hard, it's brutal. Take away the any substance abuse, behavioral health issues, any of that. It's hard. Yeah. We deal with hard things, so our job is to try and tee them up to be able to do that. What says it more By giving them some faith and going, I know you got this.

[00:36:51] Speaker: Stepping away. And it's hard. It's really hard. And what I'll say, 

[00:36:56] Speaker 3: I think where we have to do a lot of education, and [00:37:00] you know what, some parents just might not be ready to hear this, and that's completely okay and that's fine. But a big piece that we're continually trying to educate is, for example, we get a lot of families that were very successful in their careers.

[00:37:14] Speaker 3: And I remember I had this dad who was like. I've got 400 employees in my publicly traded company and I can't even figure out my 19-year-old son. 

[00:37:24] Brenda Zane: Welcome to the club, and 

[00:37:27] Speaker 3: sometimes we will talk about our process in the part-time job and parents will say he's not gonna really have to work at a recovery job.

[00:37:36] Speaker 3: We're gonna be able to do everything we can to allocate resources to where. He's gonna get back in school and we just think he needs to find the right peer group. We gotta get him back in the right peer group, and that's gonna propel him into this healthy lifestyle. That's a big misconception, I believe, I personally believe, because what they forget is that they [00:38:00] started from a place where they had to work at Marsha, the equivalent of, and they got to where they're at, selling publicly traded companies.

[00:38:09] Speaker 3: They're by just, they're missing that whole step with their young adult Yeah. In this process. Yeah. And I don't blame them. It's, it's hard for them to connect those dots. And I think the good use, the word to use here is there's, you can allocate as much resource and get all the best of everything in specialists and things, but you can't, resilience has to be found within through your own personal experience.

[00:38:35] Speaker 3: And that's what I think. Cannon and the team does such a great job of allowing these guys to feel a sense of resilience through failure. Like they gotta feel failure and they gotta work out of the failure, right? If they don't, they're just gonna feel this sense of continued complacency, which then, you know, as we know, leads to very dangerous behaviors.

[00:38:58] Speaker: Yeah. And I think that [00:39:00] using, having a true appreciation for free time. When it comes to that, rather than waking up in the morning and being like, I don't know. What am I doing today versus that schedule as Alex laid out, I'm gonna go to work, or I'm gonna go get a workout, go to the gym, then I'm gonna go to work and I'm gonna come home and have dinner with my roommates and go out to a 12 step meeting.

[00:39:23] Speaker: When you get that free time, you use it and you enjoy it, and you are grateful for it versus. Being a jellyfish, just floating along at the whims of whatever comes your way, you feel more end up feeling just more, I don't know if powerful is the right word, but just which a lot of these guys, myself included, at that age, I didn't feel like I had a whole lot of say Yeah.

[00:39:46] Speaker: In what was going on in my life. Yeah. And I still know the feeling. Yeah. Sorry, Cannon. I was 

[00:39:50] Speaker 3: just gonna say, I so know the feeling of. Just feeling, oh my gosh, like all I'm, all I know how to do [00:40:00] is just go to therapy groups and yay, I'm gonna not really knowing how to have skin in my own game of life. And that's why you have to do it all.

[00:40:09] Speaker 3: I think if you're gonna be a successful program, you need to have the continued therapy support to do the deep interpersonal work, which is so important. You need to get people active and get those great natural endorphins from exercise. The third piece of teaching that resilience, we found the best way to do that is through the vocational training and yeah, everything we've talked about.

[00:40:33] Speaker 3: So 

[00:40:34] Brenda Zane: what are some of the typical part-time jobs that guys are getting? I'm just curious, what are they doing? Is it, are there like a handful jobs? I'm looking at my 

[00:40:42] Speaker: current census right now and going, I got a guy that's working at a restaurant and he's a little bit a jack of all trades. Waits buses, runs food.

[00:40:51] Speaker: New restaurant here in town and he's working his tail off and he loves it. I have another guy who's currently working at an auto parts store. I have [00:41:00] another guy that's working at another bakery. He's going in five morning learning how to bake. Yes. He's learning how to make bread. Oh, nice. And it's really cool.

[00:41:09] Speaker: There's more dogs 

[00:41:10] Speaker 3: than people. 

[00:41:10] Speaker: Yeah, he goes in, really? Or I got a guy who's working at a frozen yogurt shop and I got a guy who's working at a thrift store, hip cool clothing, trade in, buy, sell clothes. Right. He's a fashion guy and he loves it, and so he's always in there buying and selling these clothes and stuff like that.

[00:41:26] Brenda Zane: I love it. I just, I ask because I think we can get really tunnel vision about. What they have to do. So that's so helpful just to hear like the breadth of things and it sounds, they are finding things that play into their passions. Like I love fashion, I love music, I love animals, I love baking, whatever it is.

[00:41:45] Brenda Zane: And being able to, I just think that would add a spark to that whole thing of I'm actually doing something that I enjoy. And I'm getting for sure paid and all of the things and just being around people who are not in treatment [00:42:00] potentially. Like they're just 

[00:42:01] Speaker: that for sure. And here's the piece that's also interesting though, Brenda, is that.

[00:42:06] Speaker: And a lot of this stuff, it's not rocket science, and this is stuff Alex and I went through ourselves. Sometimes you have to work at a job to know that's not what you want to do. So for me, rather than feeling like I had this thing like, okay, you have to go to college, but having no idea what I wanted to do whatsoever by wanting to better my, when I was sober, newly sober.

[00:42:29] Speaker: I worked at a restaurant and I waited tables and it worked, and I had tips and it was like, okay, cool. This is, I get a free meal every day. I was just like getting the beginning steps of life stuff going on. And then a regular customer that came in who I knew was a general contractor and a carpenter, I went to him and I was like, I wanna come work for you.

[00:42:46] Speaker: Will you teach me how to do this? And the guy took beyond. Wow. And then I did that for almost a decade where it was like, and I just kept going. It was by my own wanting to climb the next rung on the ladder rather than it was this outside thing being told this is what you're [00:43:00] supposed to do. And so that's why I went back to UCSD at 30 and to do this.

[00:43:06] Speaker: Never thought this was what I was gonna do, but it was like, okay. Yeah. And it, but it wasn't because the world at large was saying this is what you need to do. And by no means I suggest anyone wait until they you to go to school, but. You know what I'm saying? Like I had to go and work other jobs to know.

[00:43:24] Speaker: Yeah. None of that's not what I want to do. I want more. 

[00:43:27] Speaker 3: Yeah, and it has nothing to do with the family's net worth background or what this kid has as far as finances or anything. It's the principle, right? It's just the principle of learning how to stay, retaining the job, and staying consistent with it.

[00:43:44] Speaker 3: Those fundamental skills that are learned through that process, they're gonna do better at Cornell down the road or USC or wherever. Right? Wherever these parents, a lot of parents naturally have anxiety about the fact that their son or daughter is behind. Yeah. [00:44:00] And it's that. So it's not like we're anti school or anything by any means.

[00:44:05] Speaker 3: Of course not. It's just more of this is a formula that we found, and not to mention all the work of. Hey, he's got $1,500 saved up. How about we try and you taking him off of the family plan for his cell phone and having him pay for that, and then he'll pay for the gym membership. So it's like these great little stepping stones.

[00:44:29] Speaker 3: Do we expect families to pay continued clinical support and maybe college tuition down the road and whatever, of course. But let's just have them take some ownership of the small things Cannon says, the three F's, the food, fun and free time. Let's get them 

[00:44:45] Brenda Zane: let out. 

[00:44:45] Speaker 3: Paying for those three F's. Yeah. And if parents start, it's so cool to see parents start to really open up to that and start to see that themselves as they, as the parents progress through the program.

[00:44:57] Speaker 3: They're like, how's he gonna pay for that? That's [00:45:00] part of the three F's. It's like, yes, okay. We're doing our job. You know what I mean? The parents are getting it and yeah, it's like I said, we have the young adult in our care. Really this is, we're treating the whole family system here. 

[00:45:12] Brenda Zane: Yeah, I would love to just dive in.

[00:45:14] Brenda Zane: 'cause we were talking earlier about the 17-year-old and what you all see between that like 17 to 24 ish and then the 25 to maybe 28, 29, 30. Are there significant differences? 'cause you have young people at, at all of those ages, you span those ages. 

[00:45:34] Speaker: 18. 18, they're 18. Yeah. At least. But sometimes they're literally in treatment somewhere and we're holding them for another nine days till they turn 18.

[00:45:43] Speaker: Right. And they come to us. So if they're newly 18, yes. Alex, you want to jump into that? 

[00:45:48] Speaker 3: Yeah, we definitely do see a difference in sort of the behaviors that are presented. I think. I would say we probably, I mean, it all varies, right? Like you said, there's [00:46:00] no one size that fits all. It's the 18 to 24 year olds.

[00:46:04] Speaker 3: They haven't been at the manipulative hustle, you'll call it, or just being able to put their parents through the ringer longer as they have as the 25 to 30 year olds. So the 25 to 30 year olds. Have more conditioned response to, they're a little bit more treatment savvy. They're just, they can be more manipulative because this is how they've been able to survive through their addictions or behaviors longer.

[00:46:30] Speaker 3: Right. The 18 to 24 year olds, they haven't been at it that long comparatively, and I think so. I, I mean. We definitely have great outcomes with some older guys, but I would say we, we probably have better outcomes with the 18 to 24 year olds 'cause we can get it in on more of a preventative measure. Let's get at it on the ground level earlier.

[00:46:47] Brenda Zane: Yeah. 

[00:46:47] Speaker 3: And we can work with the parents. I love having different 

[00:46:50] Speaker: age groups in the house because I've seen each really have an opportunity to help the other. I'll have family sometimes say, oh, you've got a lot of younger [00:47:00] guys in the house and he's 27 or 26, or vice versa. I think the guy that's, if he's ready, and this also goes for Mare's house, the women's house we see.

[00:47:10] Speaker: It all really depends upon what their journey up to that point has been like. But I've seen an older guy say 26, 27, come in the house and really have this opportunity where he looks at the just 18-year-old who is taking this seriously, who's going to meetings, who's meeting with a sponsor, who's got a job?

[00:47:28] Speaker: And he goes, I gotta get it together. So there's like that kind of aspect. Then the 26, 20 7-year-old is able to help the 18-year-old more in the social aspect. How to act out there in the world, even whether it's in going in and talking about how do you interview for a job? What do you do if you know your coworker asks if you want to go get a beer, how do you navigate some of the life stuff that maybe they've had some more experience in and can be really cool?

[00:47:55] Speaker: Where I see the older guys able to help the younger guys out with those real [00:48:00] life more social situations. But the younger guys really motivate the older guys sometimes, so it's pretty cool. 

[00:48:06] Speaker 3: That's, yeah, cam brings up really good points there. Yeah. And then you add the women's house into it and it's a whole nother addition piece.

[00:48:13] Speaker 3: I know. I feel like, Brenda, we didn't really get a whole lot of time to talk about the women's program. Let's, we might have to do that on another show, but I know Just 

[00:48:20] Brenda Zane: quickly tell us though, why you did start Mare's House. Because until I really started diving into this world, I just would assume that if you're getting sober, if you're finding recovery, it's just the same whether you're a guy or a girl.

[00:48:34] Brenda Zane: But apparently I have learned that is not true. So give us the quick overview and then we'll do a part two or we can really dive into Mare's house. 

[00:48:43] Speaker 3: Our program director Maxine, runs Mayor, big shout to Max Maxine's House. Yep. She's awesome. She could articulate this better than anybody. I would say for the most part, if we look at the men's, the men in the men's program, the men at the grounds, depending on what their [00:49:00] family background looks like.

[00:49:02] Speaker 3: They generally present with a lot of the same issues, right? Isolation, gaming, the marijuana due psychosis stuff. It's prevalent profile across the board. The ladies at Mare's house, we're dealing with a lot more poly issues, right? We're dealing with disordered eating harm, histories of sexual trauma, and then we do get the girls that have needs for.

[00:49:29] Speaker 3: Executive function needs, like failure to thrive, needs that need to launch and things like that. But it's a very dynamic profile. The boys at the grounds, they need help with getting a button down, shirt pressed and like being presentable to put into comparison. And this is Maxine's, I'm purging it from her.

[00:49:45] Speaker 3: A lot of these girls at the Mare's house, they can get a job anywhere on their worst day. Yeah. So that's just a big difference. Yeah. And it's not just this baked in. Failure to Thrive program for the Mare's house, we [00:50:00] really doing an individualized job of treating what's needed. But that being said, going back to what Canada was talking about earlier, the families need the same support that they need at Mare's house as the parents at the grounds.

[00:50:13] Speaker 3: It's just the same thing. Women can launch into independence, have their own life, have their own destiny. Without. It's just how we provide that container is different. 

[00:50:24] Speaker: That goes into the culture of the house. I think that's so much. Yeah. It's really so much about the culture in the house. For the most part, the young men at the grounds, we can put it out there, pretty black and white.

[00:50:40] Speaker: They understand if I do this, I move up the levels, I get these freedoms. It's pretty, this the feeling of safety. And feeling connected to the other women in the program. Feeling connected to the director, Maxine down there, the then loop that Maxine creates in [00:51:00] regular contact with the families of it feeling.

[00:51:03] Speaker: The cohesiveness of it is different. The feeling around the interpersonal relationships between the women that are living in the house at any time and being able to navigate that. My hat's off to Maxine because I was one who did think we're just gonna redo the grounds and do down there for the young women.

[00:51:22] Speaker: And we learned, and it was a very educational experience for us to learn and go, oh, it's not as easy if you don't get outta bed. We're taking your stuff. Now down there, and really it's been about creating the space and that feeling of welcoming women when they come in, and women to women feeling that connection and feeling safe amongst the other women.

[00:51:48] Speaker: I don't think the guys come in here are really too worried about feeling safe. Alex brings up this story or connection thing of young men don't go out for a run around the neighborhood. Are worried about what could [00:52:00] potentially happen to them on a run around the neighborhood after dark to constantly live with knowing, having to have this other, especially ones that have a history of having some, if there's been trauma, if there's been anything like that.

[00:52:11] Speaker: So really feeling the space itself. And I do want to just plug, the coolest thing about Mare's house is how it came to be Alex's mom. I get choked up a little bit. Was always such a fantastic supporter of not only him, but the work he does. And Mary Helen Mayor, when we started getting asked to do a women's house, probably three years into this thing, and we were like, Nope, no thanks.

[00:52:35] Speaker: Didn't want to do it. And we finally did. And that's where Mare's house came to be, is named after Alex's mom. And, and so it's a really, it's a meaningful thing, the opportunity to help these young women that really. It's a scary place out there for women in that stage of their life that, you know, for all of us.

[00:52:52] Speaker: But it's been a really cool endeavor. It's been really neat. That's so special. Thanks. Good. 

[00:52:56] Speaker 3: Yeah, so we named it after my mom, Mary Ellen and [00:53:00] Mary's house and. Is it Mars House? Is it about a horse? Oh, we, we will roll with that, but no, it's, yeah, I don't really have any, maybe we will get Maxine on at some point or something, but, uh, it's really been a, a tremendous learning experience for me.

[00:53:15] Speaker 3: I just, labor of love, learn so much. I've learned so much about what women need through their recovery journey as, as a man. It's, I'm pretty clear on what boys need and, but. Wow, these women are, talk about resilience, right? I mean there's just, there's a lot that they're going through and yeah, I'm really proud of 'em and it takes, all I'd say is if you want to have a great women's program.

[00:53:39] Speaker 3: Yeah, it's real top down leadership, I think with everything. But you gotta have, you gotta have like very entrenched support there. Yeah. On all levels. Yeah. And yeah, 

[00:53:49] Speaker: from the program director to the case management to the daily staff that's working with these women, the trust, the feeling there, feeling trust and safe is [00:54:00] number one, I think a fair amount.

[00:54:02] Brenda Zane: Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. I did go on a tour and it felt. Lovely. It felt really warm and cozy and awesome. Welcoming. Yeah, and I could imagine that it's women are in such a vulnerable position in those early stages and providing that level of safety and that container where you could focus on your recovery and not just on looking over your shoulder every day or having to wonder.

[00:54:31] Brenda Zane: Who's gonna be coming in or who's gonna be walking through. It's so critical to do that. Yes, I would love to do a follow up with Maxine and learn more about that. 'cause 

[00:54:40] Speaker: Well, 

[00:54:41] Brenda Zane: I don't know. I recently read a statistic that more girls are actually using substances now than boys, which I found fascinating.

[00:54:49] Brenda Zane: And it was a legit study, like by NIDA or something. It was, or samhsa. It was not just some one off, which shocked me because I think men, [00:55:00] young men. And I have four boys, so this makes total sense to me is like, what is what you get? Like they present like I am drinking, I'm smoking, I'm playing games like, and the girls from what I see, mask it more like you said, the eating disorders with self harm, with a lot of these, the anxiety and all the things that they're dealing with, and I think the substance use may show up later.

[00:55:26] Brenda Zane: That's where the red flags really go off for the parents. But that young lady has been suffering for so 

[00:55:31] Speaker 3: long. You're constantly, there's a lot of addressing like whack-a-mole in marathon. Yes, there's disordered eating. There might be some self-harming substance acting out with sexually or whatever.

[00:55:42] Speaker 3: That's, you're right. The boys are gonna go out on their main squeeze and Yeah. So it's definitely, and that's why you have to have women that are. In leadership in the women's program that understand that to the core. 

[00:55:56] Brenda Zane: Yeah, 

[00:55:57] Speaker 3: absolutely. So, 

[00:55:58] Brenda Zane: oh goodness. We could talk [00:56:00] all day, but I will let you get back to the young men and women who need you more than I do.

[00:56:05] Brenda Zane: If you had, and I'll ask each of you to think about this, if you had a parent in front of you, which I know is not uncommon, and they were really struggling because they have a kid who's not doing well. And they can't really see the other side. What would you share with them?

[00:56:28] Speaker 3: Man, that's never been asked, so that's really cool. I would just calmly let them know that there is nothing that is terminally unique about what they're going through. It's there is. It may feel that way, but it is totally. And we're here to help the best that we can. I just, I know that feeling of feeling so isolated and alienated and thinking that I'm going through this experience myself, and I think a lot of our families go through that and just [00:57:00] normalizing that for them was what I would do.

[00:57:02] Brenda Zane: Nice. What about you, Cannon? 

[00:57:04] Speaker: I just think that, I have told this to parents, I have yet to meet a family, whether it's mom and dad, whoever it may be, that hasn't done everything. With the best intention possible to help their child, their loved one. Yeah. So stuff gets outta whack. We do stuff that we think, 'cause we don't know what else to do, and living in the should have coulda, woulda, or shame or this, it's, hey, it's constantly about being willing to learn.

[00:57:35] Speaker: And again, I'm quoting your website, look at other perspectives, being willing to go and look and go. Okay. 'cause. No one's doing it wrong. Right or wrong. You know what I mean? It's okay. You've tried everything. Maybe it's time to try something different and being willing to listen, just keeping an open-minded will get you farther than anything else.

[00:57:57] Speaker: Yes, 

[00:57:58] Brenda Zane: word, words [00:58:00] that I love to hear. Keep an open mind. Don't blame yourself. Try something new. If what you're doing isn't working, try something new. Yeah. Thank you so much. We'll have links in the show notes to both the Grounds and Mare's House and any other resources that you wanna send us. But we appreciate you guys so much and 

[00:58:21] Speaker: hey, well you and Kathy have created here and this, I mean, we, it's just another thing that makes us so grateful for the opportunity to work with people that we see that are out there and doing this in the way that we're just like.

[00:58:34] Speaker: Yes, and what you guys provide. So thank you for having us on. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. 

[00:58:42] Brenda Zane: Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related.

[00:58:55] Brenda Zane: We even have a start here playlist that we created, so if you're new here, be [00:59:00] sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use, we have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol.

[00:59:16] Brenda Zane: It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent.

[00:59:39] Brenda Zane: It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right back here next week.