Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

Recognizing Warrior Moms With Adult Kids In Addiction, with Cathy Cioth

• Brenda Zane • Season 6 • Episode 304

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

When your journey with a child's substance use stretches into its second decade, you enter what we loving call "warrior mom" (or parent) territory – a place where endurance meets wisdom, and self-preservation becomes an art form. Today's conversation with Hopestream co-founder, Cathy, honors these battle-tested parents who've been navigating their adult children's challenges for ten, fifteen, even twenty years or more.

This isn't an advice-filled episode - because more advice isn't what you need. It's a raw, honest dialogue between two mothers who know the unique terrain of loving a child through active use, high-risk lifestyles, homelessness, incarceration, and the revolving door of recovery and relapse. 

Cathy shares her own marathon story, including driving hundreds of miles to share picnics with her daughter – a simple act of presence that seemed insignificant (and ineffective) at the time but later proved transformative. 

You'll hear:

  • Why "handing over a shift" to a higher power becomes essential for sustainable parenting through decades of struggle
  • How warrior parents navigate the delicate dance of support versus enabling when adult children face eviction, homelessness, or legal troubles
  • The unexpected and seemingly counterintuitive renewal that comes from serving others
  • Why those seemingly fruitless gestures of connection (like Cathy's picnics) create an energetic contract that transcends the immediate moment
  • The liberating truth about our children's remarkable resourcefulness when stability disappears and traditional safety nets fail

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Get our free, 4-video course, Hope Starts Here, and access to our Limited Membership here
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
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Watch the podcast on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

Hopestream Community is a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization and an Amazon Associate. We may make a small commission if you purchase from our links.

Cathy: It's easy for people to judge in the moment and not see what that parent might be doing is creating a path forward and a path towards connection later. And I know I speak to this because, you know, I would meet our daughter, you know, where she lived and we would drive. A ways to get there, and we would have a picnic. I wasn't filling her fridge with groceries or anything. I literally would just bring lunch for us and we would sit there, you know, now that she's on the other side, she said that meant so much to her. Someone could have said, wow, you really went outta your way. To do that. Was it even worth it? She's not reciprocating, she's not doing anything.

But for me, I just knew it was like, what we say, it's the marathon, right? Not the sprint. That this would take some time. And it did take several times of doing that, several years later to get that in a beautiful letter from her to say, mom, I heard all the things that you said, and when you came and did all those things with dad, that really made a difference.[00:01:00] 


[00:01:03] Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless. You are not helpless, and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources at hopestreamcommunity.org.

[00:01:36] Brenda: Hello. Hello, Kathy. How are you today, Brenda? I'm doing great. How are you doing today? I'm good. We had such a crazy week last week with our fundraiser. Oh my, my gosh. We had this online fundraiser, which was a little bananas, and then, I don't know, I feel like it's Wednesday already. Like what was I doing Monday and Tuesday?


[00:01:57] Brenda: I feel like I took a little bit of a like f. [00:02:00] Breather. 
[00:02:00] Cathy: Well, you're better 
[00:02:01] Brenda: than me. I thought today was Thursday. I really did. That happens sometimes too, so that definitely happens at times. Oh my goodness. We wanted to do an episode today for our warrior moms. Now I know every mom who is in in our community.
[00:02:23] Brenda: Exactly. Listen, this podcast and every dad, stepdad. Y'all feel like warriors and you are, you are, you are. There is a next level warrior mom who Yeah. We just wanted to acknowledge today. You wanna talk a little bit about these special humans? 
[00:02:43] Cathy: Yeah. I mean, well I categorize myself as a warrior mom for sure.
[00:02:49] Cathy: Um, so warrior mom is that your child is an adult. So, you know, we like to say in the stream [00:03:00] that they kind of fall in their twenties. Some of our warrior moms have kids in their thirties. Mm-hmm. And we know there are probably some of you out there listening whose kids are 40 or 50 maybe I 
[00:03:12] Brenda: know two in, in our community.
[00:03:13] Brenda: Yeah. In the stream that have kids in their early forties, 
[00:03:17] Cathy: so. Right, right. So. This journey hasn't just been a couple years for you. This journey has probably been going on for a decade or longer. And you know, it's very different because your child, it's so funny to call them your child. I know. I know. But that's truly what they are.
[00:03:36] Cathy: I know they are your child. They're always our children. Um, but they usually probably aren't living with you at this point. If they're living on their own or if they are living with you, that's, that is another thing. Um, next day love or may not support them. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's kind of like a warrior mom sits on the fence of sometimes you're supporting them, sometimes you're not.
[00:03:59] Cathy: [00:04:00] Sometimes they live with you, sometimes they're not. Yeah. I mean, there's so many, you kind of are straddling this really weird space. Um, and it's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. I 
[00:04:10] Brenda: know there's a lot of unknowns. Yes. Especially as they become an adult, because like you said, sometimes they move out, they're doing okay for a while, and then things take a turn and so you may not even hear from them for weeks or months.
[00:04:26] Brenda: Mm-hmm. And mm-hmm. That's a different kind of hell to live in for sure. When you have a kid who you know is in trouble, not trouble, like legal trouble, but physically they're not doing well, they're at risk, they're vulnerable. They're not super healthy and when you don't hear from them for an extended period of time, 
[00:04:45] Brenda: oh, 
[00:04:47] Brenda: just it's so hard.
[00:04:49] Cathy: It's, it's so hard. And, and I know, you know, you also kind of go into that space where you talk about legal trouble, where. There have been times you think if only [00:05:00] they would get arrested. Mm-hmm. Then I know where they are and I know that they're safe and I know they're not using substances and well, maybe there's some support.
[00:05:08] Cathy: We hope 
[00:05:10] Brenda: newsflash to anybody who thinks that jail is a place where they're not using that is not always true, not always true, however, but usually a little safer than. Yes. On, you know, if they're on the streets or something like that. Yeah. And that's, I mean, the other, the other part of this for the warrior moms who have kids who are unhoused or bumping around mm-hmm.
[00:05:36] Brenda: Between having housing, not having housing, getting evicted. I mean, how many times do we hear in our community, my kids getting evicted next week. They have nowhere to go. It is right. So scary and. The thing I will say is we tend to get focused on that. The scary part of that, and what we sometimes forget when our kids [00:06:00] are facing those situations is they are so amazingly resourceful.
[00:06:06] Brenda: And Oh yeah. I know your daughter was resourceful about finding ways to live when you were not supporting her. My son also got very creative. Yeah. And you don't like to think about it because we don't like to think about our kids without a safe place to lay their head every night. But man, does it pull out their resourcefulness 
[00:06:27] Cathy: when they have to do that.
[00:06:29] Cathy: They're amazing. They truly are. And you know, it's, it's actually in a way a testament to really good friendships too. Yes. '
[00:06:37] Brenda: cause 
[00:06:37] Cathy: you know, I, they support each other, you know, whatever that is. That's not saying that they're looking at the parents saying, you guys the bad guys, they just know their friend needs help and they're there to help 'em.
[00:06:48] Cathy: Yeah. 
[00:06:48] Cathy: And so, yes, incredibly resourceful. So, yeah. I like what you said though too, that we live in fear of that happening. And you know, [00:07:00] as difficult it is as it is, think about if you were in that situation, what you would do and then times's that 
[00:07:09] Brenda: right at 
[00:07:09] Cathy: 10, right? Because that's how great our kids are.
[00:07:13] Cathy: They are being resourceful. They are. 
[00:07:16] Brenda: They're so incredible. And we have a saying in the stream, which is strong back, soft front capes on let's go. And these warrior moms. Of the adult kids, I think they should have like a double cape with sparkles like bedazzled to death and they should flaunt it because there's a lot, especially with social media today and everything out there, you know, the, the moms who get a lot of praise and attention are the ones who are like.
[00:07:50] Brenda: I homemade cupcakes for every child in my kids', you know, third grade class or I, you [00:08:00] know, went and whatever. I mean, it just, it's a little like roll your eyes, sickening. And these are the moms who I, what I see sometimes, especially before they find us mm-hmm. Is they try to make themselves smaller. They become very isolated and quiet because it's so awkward and painful.
[00:08:24] Brenda: Right? When even family members are like, oh, where's Johnny? He wasn't at last Christmas 
[00:08:30] Cathy: either. Right? Right. How's that job? How's the all the things, right? I mean, because truly. Your family member or friend may know exactly what's going on. And I think, you know, to give them all credit too, I think just as much as we would like to give them a different response, they're expecting a different response too.
[00:08:54] Cathy: Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. Right. Oh, that's great. You know, Johnny still has his job [00:09:00] or, or whatever, or Karen's back in school or whatever that is. Yeah. So, you know, um, it, it is really, really. Tough when you're in those situations. 
[00:09:10] Brenda: Yeah. I think they just, these, these moms and dads, we don't wanna forget about the dads 'cause Holy cow.
[00:09:15] Brenda: Yeah. You guys go through it too. Just proudly wear that cape because mm-hmm. If people had any idea what you go through and, you know, for three or four years I led the partnership to end addiction call. Mm-hmm For parents of adult kids. Wow. Talk about in indoc indoctrination, is that the word I want?
[00:09:42] Brenda: Mm-hmm. Indoctrination into a very difficult world. 'cause you know, when I started that my son was still in his early, well mid twenties, and so I just, you know, I was kind of in over my head. However, luckily, like all of the invitation to change [00:10:00] and the craft tools, they still work. So I wasn't outta my, my wheelhouse from that standpoint, but just.
[00:10:06] Brenda: The emotional battlefield that they were navigating. Mm-hmm. And the parents with kids in, in prison for the fourth time, or the ones, you know, whose kiddo was homeless, living in a car in another state, you know, addicted to fentanyl and, and also, you know, we talk about creativity and resourcefulness of the kids, but the parents too, because Yeah, there was a mom who had.
[00:10:34] Brenda: You know, she was in one state, her son's in another state, and she had made contact with the managers of this Starbucks that was near where her son was living in his car. And she basically said, you know, if he comes in and he's hungry, not every day obviously, but every once in a while he would wander in there and she said, [00:11:00] you know, give him a sandwich.
[00:11:02] Brenda: In a cup of coffee, I will pay you. And they did it like, that's so sweet. It was so beautiful. Or she would send him a pizza to his car. 
[00:11:11] Cathy: That's so sweet. Where it was car. Oh, I love that. And so, because what it's all about is connection, right? Yes. Yeah. And that's what we, that's what we talk about. This is their, you know, they can, your relationship can still be.
[00:11:26] Cathy: One of connectivity, right? Versus you may not like what they're doing and you, you know, it's not saying that you support it, they're just trying to get through life, you know, in the way that they have coped before. Yeah. It's survival mode. And so it's survival mode. It's survival mode. And so I love that that mom just said, you know what, instead of saying, oh, let him be homeless, let him, let him live in his car and feel that, uh, you know, he obviously is uncomfortable and he's also hungry.
[00:11:55] Cathy: Yeah. 
[00:11:55] Cathy: And when you're hungry and uncomfortable, are you going [00:12:00] to maybe think, today's the day I'm gonna change? Maybe, maybe not. Yeah, maybe not. And it's, but sending a pizza to his car is just a sign of saying, Hey, someone out there really cares about me and loves me. And I am worth something. 
[00:12:14] Brenda: Yes, and I, that's what it's about.
[00:12:17] Brenda: I think this is where it gets really messy with that whole term enabling, because could you call that enabling a hundred percent? Could you call it being a loving mom and trying to stay connected and making sure that your child knows that somebody knows that they are alive. Somebody knows that they matter a hundred percent.
[00:12:38] Brenda: Yeah, so I think you have to be careful. Um, and a lot of people get very judgy about all this kind of stuff, and you, we always just say, you know your child and you know your heart, and you know now if you're doing that twice a day, every day. Mo, we may wanna look at that [00:13:00] and find some other ways to stay connected.
[00:13:01] Brenda: That's right. 
[00:13:02] Cathy: That's right. 
[00:13:03] Brenda: So I, I just would plea with everybody who maybe somebody's listening to this that supports, you know, a family member or friend, don't get judgy on them. Just, you know, just don't. They're doing the best that they can. Yeah. Just don't, and don't get judgy. There's times where, yes, maybe it is 1000% enabling, and at the same time, that is what that mom or dad needs to get through the day themselves, to know that their kid is not starving.
[00:13:32] Brenda: Mm-hmm. To know that they can make a phone call, whatever it is. I mean, let's not judge people for being human. And being a parent and having this unconditional love for your child, if they're living in a car addicted to fentanyl, you still love them. 
[00:13:52] Cathy: You do. And I think that it's easy for people to judge in the moment and not [00:14:00] see what's, what that parent might be doing is creating a path forward.
[00:14:06] Cathy: Yes. And a path towards connection later. And I know I speak to this because. You know, I would meet our daughter, you know, where she lived, and we would drive away to get there and we would have a picnic. I wasn't filling her fridge with groceries or anything. I literally would just bring lunch for us and we would sit there and you know, now that she's on the other side, she said that meant so much to her.
[00:14:33] Cathy: Yeah. And you know, and someone could have said, wow, you really went outta your way. To do that, was it even worth it? You know, she's, you know, she's not reciprocating, she's not doing anything. But for me, I just knew it was like, what we say, it's the marathon, right? Not the sprint. That this would take some time.
[00:14:52] Cathy: And it did take, you know, several times of doing that. And at the time when I was in it, I [00:15:00] was thinking, is this really mattering? Is it working well? It did work. Eventually she did say she, you know what I did was I made that bridge a little shorter for her to come across. Yeah. And say, I think I need some help.
[00:15:15] Cathy: And several years later to get that in a beautiful letter from her to say, mom, I heard you and it, I heard all the things that you said, and when you came and did all those things with dad, that really made a difference. 
[00:15:32] Brenda: Okay. 
[00:15:33] Cathy: And that just, you know, just saying that now is just don't give up on your kid, you know?
[00:15:37] Cathy: Mm-hmm. Connect with them because hopefully one day they will be on the other side and you will hear those words too. 
[00:15:43] Brenda: Mm-hmm. 
[00:15:44] Cathy: And, and to keep the hope up, you know? But we have to start small. We have to start with small connections, and don't let the judges judge Yes. 
[00:15:54] Brenda: Don't let them into your space. Yes. I love what you said about building, making that bridge a [00:16:00] little bit shorter.
[00:16:00] Brenda: Okay. Because as we know, when they do have that inkling to ask for help, it's usually a brief period of time. 
[00:16:11] Cathy: It's so short. The 
[00:16:12] Brenda: window is open for a very short amount of time, and if they have to start constructing the bridge from the first stone, and then they have to build the support, right, they're probably not gonna be able to do that within the short window of time.
[00:16:29] Brenda: That they are in a place where they're, you know, willing to at least even discuss having, getting some help. Yeah, and that's a really important point because if we have completely 100% disconnected ourself from them and, you know, said you're on your own, that bridge is gonna take a seriously long time to, to rebuild.
[00:16:53] Brenda: And you as the parent. And this has been proven in research, are really at that point, the only people left [00:17:00] who will even consider helping them because they have burned every relationship to the ground. They've literally burned bridges. They have literally burned, it's perfect, the bridges right? And you know, uh, that we are the only ones as parents who even have the wherewithal to say for the 11 thousandths time.
[00:17:24] Brenda: Okay, let's talk about what help looks like. So that bridge keeping the, the bricks in the bridge is super important. I think that I'm real, really glad that you said that. And um, also I wanna acknowledge that there are times where you do have to make that break where, and, and we see this a lot mm-hmm.
[00:17:46] Brenda: With some very serious mental health issues. 
[00:17:49] Brenda: Yeah, 
[00:17:50] Brenda: because a lot of times the substances that they're using today will trigger, right? A, an underlying mental health issue. And then you're dealing [00:18:00] with psychosis or you're dealing with very extreme mental illnesses that are untreated, right? 'cause maybe they're unhoused or maybe they're even living in their own place, but they're not taking medications and it becomes too dangerous and too toxic and too.
[00:18:17] Brenda: Chaotic to have that relationship. And so sometimes those relationships do have to be put on hold while you're maybe in the background trying to provide some kind of helper structure, uh, because that's just reality. Like, I don't wanna paint this. Yeah. You know, sunshiny picture like, oh, but you can always have this really special relationship with your kid when they're in very active addiction.
[00:18:43] Brenda: Sometimes that's not possible. And talk about additional heartbreak, right? It's one thing to like, oh, that's so tough. You know, your kid tough's struggling, but you're using craft and you're doing all these things and, and you're in a position where you can have a relationship like you did with your daughter like I did with [00:19:00] my son, even when he was very actively using.
[00:19:03] Brenda: And there are gonna be some times when that's not the case. And so that's just an additional layer of heartbreak, and we've also seen those relationships come back. So That's right. Maybe that's right. Medication was something that helped, or they found the right resource and they were able to get some help.
[00:19:23] Brenda: And it could be years later that that reconnection happens with the parents or a sibling or whoever it is. And so it's a long game. Like it 
[00:19:35] Cathy: is a long game. Prepare for the long game. It's a long game and why we call them warriors. Right. And so I, you know, and I love what you said there, uh, for sure. Safety is the number one priority here.
[00:19:48] Cathy: Yep. 
[00:19:49] Cathy: Absolutely. Absolutely. For you, for your child, all around. Yep. Um, and you know, and, and just know too that, you know, [00:20:00] that relationship may not be there right now the way you want it, but that's okay. Maybe that's just the universe also saying, Hey. I spent some time focusing on your own self-care so that you can kind of build yourself, you know, build those reserves again and, and be ready, right?
[00:20:17] Cathy: Yeah. And so, um, because the mental health aspect of, oh Boy, and we're seeing so, so much of that right now, um, with the high potency THC products and, you know, and, and. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot for what we're seeing. The mental health aspect seems to be overshadowing almost some of the hardcore substance, you know, use that we used to see.
[00:20:44] Cathy: That was a little more common, I guess. Yeah. 
[00:20:47] Brenda: And I think to that it could be a little bit like, you know, there's other things that. Have now just become more diagnosed. And so it looks like there's this huge [00:21:00] increase. I almost wonder if some of this is that we, 10 years ago, just saw the substance use and really focused on that.
[00:21:08] Brenda: And now what the treatment programs and therapists and everybody are seeing is, okay, yes, we have the substance use and it's really the result of this underlying thing. And so, um. I think there might be a little bit of that too. But you know, you and I talk to mm-hmm. People in the treatment world every day, and we hear this consistently.
[00:21:29] Brenda: We are seeing more kids with anxiety, with depression, with, you know, schizophrenia or some of these, you know, bipolar and. We are not doctors or therapist friends. We, we are neither of those, but we talk to a lot of them. What we hear from the folks who are doctors and therapists and have years and years and years of training in this is that sometimes in some folks, the substance use is what is the trigger, right?
[00:21:57] Brenda: So when you pull that trigger, you [00:22:00] never know. In some kids nothing, like they don't even become addicted. That's right. In other kids. Maybe there's some dependence and there's addiction, and then in other kids, and again, when we say kids could be 25, 27 years old. Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life-changing for so many women who started right where you might be by listening to the show.
[00:22:24] Brenda: If you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through. There is a place designed specifically for you. The Stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers who are parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential.
[00:22:45] Brenda: It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and [00:23:00] calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background.
[00:23:03] Brenda: Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery, you'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices.
[00:23:25] Brenda: Because we know you wanna see positive change in your family. Check it out@hopestreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay, back to the show. It could be, it could really trigger that. Psychosis, um, schizophrenia, those kinds of things that they're, they're not gonna reverse.
[00:23:52] Brenda: That's the, I asked a, a physician recently about that. I said, oh, is the jury still out on, you know, whether the psychosis will [00:24:00] reverse? And he was like, Nope. The jury is not still out. Like it does, it can be medicated. It's heartbreaking. It can be treated, but it's not gonna reverse. And so. All of that to say it's a lot to deal with.
[00:24:15] Brenda: And we're just here to acknowledge those of you who are in this very exclusive club. And there are, we don't wanna forget about some of the, um, I would say like unexpected growth spurts that can happen with this, that, you know, a lot of us have experienced. Uh, not in the way that we wanted. We didn't necessarily want to learn our lessons through the fire that we've been thrown into.
[00:24:44] Brenda: However, what we see, and I think what we've experienced is an ability to have incredible compassion for not just folks who are dealing with mental health and substance use issues, but just [00:25:00] compassion in general in the world, because it. It sort of this, going through this just exposes a completely new layer of your heart and your soul that you never really knew It really does, knew existed.
[00:25:17] Cathy: It really does. And you know it, it's so funny just when you say that, you know, I, when I look at, you know, some of the unhoused folks in my neighborhood, you know, my city. My first thought when I look at them is, oh, that someone's child. And before I used to think, ah, they're begging again, or whatever.
[00:25:41] Cathy: Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's, I mean, I always had compassion, but, you know, it's, it's a whole new layer and I just, there's a part of me that wants to go up to every single one and say, do you wanna use my phone to call your mom? I know, because I just think, you know, oh, you know, but. Also the growth. I wanna say [00:26:00] too, when you brought that up, I love that you brought that up, Brenda, is that the growth that our moms go through in terms of, you know, they may have felt like, oh, I was never really great at boundaries.
[00:26:11] Cathy: And when they go through all of this and they're put through their ringer again and again, all of a sudden they become these amazing boundary holders, boundary or whatever, boss. They're boundary bosses. I, I don't know if they're just exhausted or, or what it, or what it is exactly. But all of a sudden a uh, you know, you talk about trigger, like a flip switches.
[00:26:38] Cathy: Yes. And I know that happened for me and it was like, I'm just done. I am done. And this is, this is the line. This is not gonna move right here. This is what it is. And it, and the great thing is that goes across all areas of your life, not just with your child, with friends, family, or whatever it is. Yeah. And it's pretty amazing [00:27:00] that growth to see our warrior moms and dads go through that.
[00:27:04] Cathy: It's, it's pretty spectacular 
[00:27:06] Brenda: and so cool to watch. It totally is. And kind of along those same lines is. Uh, you know, there's this sort of, for, for those of you women who are listening who are in sort of the menopausal stage, there's this thing called the don't care club and oh, I've seen that many of us have joined the Don't Care Club, which can mean anything that's from wearing comfortable shoes, AKA Birkenstock addiction.
[00:27:36] Brenda: Um. To lots of different things, and I think that going through this experience, especially for the warrior moms and dads who have been in this 10 plus years, you are also in a different version of the Don't care club, which is, it's so freeing to not be wrapped up and caught up in these superficial things in the world that, okay.
[00:27:59] Brenda: Get people [00:28:00] all riled up and they get all, you know, on their high horse or, you know, even something as dumb as sitting in traffic, it's like, I don't care. Yeah. Doesn't matter to, you know. Yeah. I think you and I are very similar in that it, it takes a lot to get us riled up. Now you try to mess with one of our mamas.
[00:28:26] Brenda: That is gonna get us riled up. That 
[00:28:27] Cathy: gets, 
[00:28:28] Cathy: that gets me riled up. That will get us 
[00:28:29] Brenda: riled or our kids. That gets me right. You, 
[00:28:32] Cathy: I'm, I'm still a huge mama bear when it comes to our kids. I thought, oh heck 
[00:28:36] Brenda: no. You are not. No, I shared a Instagram thing with you the other day of a, we gotta find that picture and I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to add it in here in the YouTube video.
[00:28:45] Brenda: If you're not watching us on YouTube, by the way, you are missing out. Yeah. You are missing out. Um. I sent you this picture of this bird that the mama bird had this almost like an umbrella. Her wings made like an umbrella and underneath 
[00:28:59] Cathy: her Yeah, her [00:29:00] wingspan over the, over her little ones. Yeah. And 
[00:29:02] Brenda: I was like, this is us with our moms.
[00:29:04] Brenda: So that will get us riled up. You know, like anybody, you know, dealing with our kids and, and mistreating them or making assumptions about mental health or making assumptions about substance use, we will absolutely get riled up. Other than that. I, I don't know. Not a lot. Not a lot. It's true. It's just so freeing.
[00:29:28] Brenda: And so that's another benefit, you know, if you're looking for benefits of being in this club, I would say that is one. And then also if you're, you know, in our community or if you have a great Al-Anon group, or if you have a great smart recovery family group or whatever kind of group. You have probably realized that there is an incredibly special bond between parents who've been through this like no other.
[00:29:54] Brenda: It is so beautiful and so healing. It is so cool. Yeah. 
[00:29:58] Cathy: The friends that you [00:30:00] make that you never thought. You know, I mean, really, we all come from such different backgrounds, you know, some obvious, right? Yes. I mean, it's just all over the world, different backgrounds, but it's so, so beautiful to have relationships with people because we all have that lived experience.
[00:30:20] Cathy: We know what it's like. And it just feels so good to connect with someone who just gets you like nobody does instantly. Like our retreats. Retreats 
[00:30:30] Brenda: are so fun because we have all these moms who've never met each other in person. We're all in these little zoom boxes from every walk of life, every professional, everything, every education level, everything.
[00:30:45] Brenda: And you get together in real life. And it is like you have known each other forever. Your sisters. You could, yeah, there's zero small talk, like nobody is talking about the weather. It is just real and honest and [00:31:00] raw and you know, we had the most beautiful thing happen this week in the stream. We had a mama who's an oh, definitely a warrior mom, and her kiddo was needing to go to the hospital.
[00:31:14] Brenda: There was a lot of stuff going on. Um. Which going to hospitals is a very common, oh my gosh, for these. And she posted in the chat section of her subgroup for Warrior Moms. Um, he's on his way to the hospital. I'm not there. You know, could people just send up prayers or positive thoughts and like the whole chat just went bananas.
[00:31:40] Brenda: Like it was like. 25, I don't know, 30 different people instantly. Like, we got you. We, yeah. Prayer's going up or positive thoughts going up. And it was so great to see that because you gotta 
[00:31:56] Cathy: have that, you know, it was, it was absolutely [00:32:00] beautiful. And what I loved about that whole chat sequence is people pointing out.
[00:32:05] Cathy: Some real positives that were happening there. Mm-hmm. 
[00:32:08] Brenda: It 
[00:32:08] Cathy: felt like a really negative situation. I mean, you know, she, she shared a lot of details around that and, you know, and, and I think people could feel exactly where she was and also say, Hey, this is a great positive here, and look what you did and, you know, yes.
[00:32:27] Cathy: Support and prayers, all the things. Right. It was just, it was such, well, that's a stream. Yeah. That's. That's what it's for. That's, that's exactly, I wouldn't expect anything less, um, from the community and it was really beautiful, so I just love that. Yeah, I know. It was really, really special and I, I'm kind of thinking that was, that might have been done.
[00:32:48] Cathy: I don't know if that was in a. Retreat chat or something, because you talked about retreat chat. It was, and so, yeah. I mean, that just shows you too, that, you know, you go on retreats and you [00:33:00] bond with all these women and then, you know, you get to keep on having these group chats with just that group. It's very, very special.
[00:33:08] Cathy: Yeah. Um, to have that. So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It's like 
[00:33:12] Brenda: having a group text on your phone where you just Yeah. Stay in touch with the same people year after year, after year is very cool. That's right. That's right. I think the, the warrior moms that I see doing the best, because we do have some who are just rocking it.
[00:33:29] Brenda: You know, they still have all kinds of struggles, but the ones that do the best, I would say, are the ones who, number one, take care of themselves. I mean, we are literal broken record, and we will continue to be a broken record on this. They take care of themselves. They do not set aside their life, their body, their wellness, just to obsess on their child.
[00:33:58] Brenda: And, and I [00:34:00] think time a little bit, um, helps with this because you can only sacrifice yourself for so long. So if you have a 15 or 16-year-old yeah, you know, you are in like high functioning mode, like you are still going. Yeah, but if you've been at that for 10 years, right? You've gotten to the point where you are probably saying like, whoa, I gotta have some moments here and I'm gonna take care of myself.
[00:34:29] Brenda: I'm gonna have my hobbies, I'm gonna do my things. Doesn't mean I love my kidney less. It doesn't mean I'm still not gonna worry about them, but I'm not going to hand over my life my one precious life to them and their craziness. Right. And all the madness that goes along with that. I'm not gonna do it.
[00:34:48] Cathy: And by the way, if you're, you are not saying that your brain is not telling you, your body will be telling you. Mm. Because that happened to you and I as you know, that physically our bodies [00:35:00] just gave out. Yeah. And at one point we were both saying to our bodies, okay uncle, I get it. I gotta stop the crazy somehow.
[00:35:10] Cathy: And you know, and then you start to feel a little better and you think, well, okay, there is something to this. I mean, our, our lovely Janice who we adore and I know she, I'm shouting out Janice 'cause she's amazing. She sits on our board and she's just, she's an amazing warrior mom in our group. And Janice said like she would hear us all the time yammering about self-care.
[00:35:33] Cathy: Self-care. And then she thought. I don't know. There is something here. 'cause she started to do and it really made a difference. I know. And so anyway, I, and it's 
[00:35:44] Brenda: hard. 
[00:35:45] Cathy: And it is hard. It's hard. We're not saying it's easy. 
[00:35:48] Brenda: No. You just start 
[00:35:49] Cathy: small. No, we're 
[00:35:49] Brenda: not saying it's easy. Yeah. Start with something small.
[00:35:52] Brenda: Um, just breathe. Yeah. Just breathe. Yeah. 
[00:35:57] Cathy: I always tell people what I, what do I [00:36:00] do? Just take five minutes and do several deep breaths. You don't even have to follow a script of how many breaths, box breaths, whatever it is. Just breathe. Make them deep and try to see, did that help you right there? 
[00:36:16] Cathy: Yeah. 
[00:36:17] Cathy: And usually it will.
[00:36:18] Cathy: And you're just gonna keep doing that. And that's your starting small. That is your starting 
[00:36:22] Brenda: small. 
[00:36:22] Cathy: Walk around the block, 
[00:36:24] Brenda: drink some water. Yeah, have some real food. Are the, those are the basics. And they do help. They do help. What else do you see as far as like a, a trait or, or a trend in the warrior moms who are doing well despite everything that's going on?
[00:36:44] Cathy: You know, um,
[00:36:50] Cathy: you know, they have a really great. Spiritual practice, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I see that. Mm-hmm. I mean the, whether [00:37:00] you believe in God or bud or whatever your religious preference or no religious preference is, whether it's meditation. When I say spirituality, I mean you're just connecting on some deep level to something.
[00:37:13] Cathy: And that could be yoga, that you're, you know, getting that through or, or meditation or prayer. And I see that in a lot of these moms. I think that they're able to actually take that time and connect to their inner self mm-hmm. And, you know, to something greater than them, I guess I should say. Yeah. Uh, that's really a beautiful thing to see.
[00:37:36] Cathy: And Yeah. I know from experience that happened in my journey too, it was, I never would've thought. How deep my connection, spirituality, you know, my spiritual connection would be. It was really amazing. 
[00:37:48] Brenda: Yeah. I think that also having that higher power, whatever that is mm-hmm. To you, helps with being able to hand some of it over.
[00:37:57] Brenda: Because by this point, 10, [00:38:00] 15 years in, you have realized, oh. I can't control this. I, this is not under my control. Yeah. And to be able to sleep at night. I even have a meditation on Insight timer about this. Um, I'll put a link in the show notes to it. It's called, uh, I should really know what that meditation is called.
[00:38:21] Brenda: Oh, it's called, the meditation is called a Gift of sleep for parents of kids who are, are struggling with addiction. And it's all about being able to say, okay, my shift is over. To my best of my ability. I've done what I can tonight. I need to sleep, because sleep is probably the most underrated tool for navigating this halt, this madness.
[00:38:46] Brenda: You have to sleep. You really have to sleep, and it's so hard. I know, because you're worried and at night everything gets worse in your brain. So being able to hand that shift over [00:39:00] to your higher power and say, I know you've got this. For the next however many hours, I'll pick it up tomorrow and I'll do my best again.
[00:39:07] Brenda: Right. So I agree. Having a higher power, something bigger that you can look at and say, okay, I know that something larger than just what I am seeing here in my little orbit is working. And conspiring for good. I think that's hugely important. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, I also think a very un uh, underrated and very non-intuitive way to navigate this is to be in service to other people, 
[00:39:40] Cathy: which, yeah.
[00:39:41] Brenda: Sounds crazy. 'cause you're like, I am already so stressed out. I've got this huge thing, negative thing in my life. And we have seen it over and over that if you can even carve out one hour a month and help someone else, I would say stay away from like [00:40:00] situations of maybe feeding homeless people or you know, addiction related.
[00:40:05] Brenda: Just 'cause you're already in that soup. Like get out of that soup and get into like go. Yeah, we're not 
[00:40:09] Cathy: saying that, that's not a good thing. No, it's just for you right now. Try to do something of service. Yeah. You know, go 
[00:40:17] Brenda: rock babies at 
[00:40:18] Cathy: Yeah. The 
[00:40:19] Brenda: nursery or foster 
[00:40:20] Cathy: dogs like I do, like that. Foster dogs or, or foster kittens.
[00:40:24] Cathy: You know what, 
[00:40:25] Brenda: there is something. Okay, here's one that is adjacent to addiction. That would be very good. There is an organization. I will look it up and I'll put it in the show notes 'cause I don't know it now that actually you can foster a dog while somebody is in treatment. One of the main reasons that people will not go to treatment, especially if they're, maybe they're living on the streets and they have an animal, that is their only thing, right?
[00:40:52] Brenda: Their only friend, right? Um, even, even people who are not in that situation, having a pet is a very [00:41:00] big barrier to going into treatment. So there is an organization where you can volunteer to have their pet. For the 60, 90 days, whatever it is, so that they know that there are animals being loved and taken care of, and then they can go love and take care of themselves.
[00:41:17] Brenda: So that would be a good one. Yeah. I love that 
[00:41:20] Cathy: there are so many, as we know, just being in the nonprofit world, there are so many amazing things. And so, you know, the gift to yourself would be, look online, see what really just speaks to you, and just spend an hour of, of service. Yeah. You know, I have a friend that actually, you know, does these little care packages for women who have breast cancer and they do earrings.
[00:41:43] Cathy: I should find out what that is. You can put that in the show notes. Yeah. But anyway, it's, it's really amazing. So. Uh, so many great things out there. 
[00:41:51] Brenda: Yeah, it's, um, it's, it sounds weird. We would just say try it. Just try it, try, just try it. Spending [00:42:00] an hour. I, I, the only reason I said that about not potentially doing something where you're working in addiction or homelessness is I, for a while was with going with my husband and we were working at a, you know.
[00:42:12] Brenda: Uh, soup kitchen, which sounds like a very outdated term, but I don't know what else to call it. But it, we literally mm-hmm. Were like serving lunch to homeless people, um, in downtown Seattle, which was quite the experience. It's a whole nother podcast episode, but I felt good when we got done, and I also felt almost even more heartbroken because mm-hmm.
[00:42:33] Brenda: We would see the same people every single week and. You just, wow. It was just a lot for somebody who's, especially if you're a highly sensitive person like me, and you feel the world at a 20 versus a 10, just like being that close to such struggle and such hopelessness. Alright, well, warrior moms and dads, [00:43:00] this one's for you.
[00:43:01] Brenda: We just wanted to give you a shout out. 
[00:43:05] Cathy: Yeah, we just, we just, we really, I know sometimes you probably feel forgotten about, but you're not, and you know, we see you and we're here for you. Mm-hmm. And you know, if it's just, uh, it is, you're really heroes. Yeah. You're heroes to us because you've been on this road a long ways.
[00:43:27] Cathy: And, and, um, anyway, chin up, 
[00:43:30] Brenda: right? Like, don't chin up. Don't shrink yourself. Don't be embarrassed. Just, I think hold your head with pride that you have endured this long. Mm-hmm. That you are still in the game. That you are taking care of yourself, you're connected. If you're not connected, please get connected.
[00:43:50] Brenda: That is one of the biggest game changers. Yeah. You know, and not feeling so alone in this. And you know, if you're in our community. [00:44:00] Um, if you're in the stream, reach out to another warrior mom this week. I know we just had a call yesterday, but yeah, reach out. You know, y'all are in the same group there in the little subgroup.
[00:44:10] Brenda: You can just chat with each other. Just say, Hey, I, you know, we're still, 
[00:44:17] Cathy: you could say, Hey, I'm so tired. 
[00:44:20] Brenda: I'm so tired. I'm so tired, I'm so tired. And also 
[00:44:23] Cathy: I need to eat 
[00:44:24] Brenda: better. I need to drink water. Yeah. Just to have that. Yeah. Moment of being seen, being heard, being respected. I mean, so much respect to you.
[00:44:36] Brenda: Yeah. If you're, if you're one of these beautiful, beautiful humans, we love you. 
[00:44:42] Cathy: Yeah, we love you. This was for you. All right. We'll see you next time, Kathy. See you later, Brenda. Bye. 
[00:44:49] Brenda: Bye. Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and [00:45:00] click podcast.
[00:45:01] Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related. We even have a start here playlist that we created, so if you're new here, be sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use, we have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol.
[00:45:25] Brenda: It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent.
[00:45:48] Brenda: It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right [00:46:00] back here next week.

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Brenda Zane

Host
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Cathy Cioth

Guest