Don’t Get Distracted: Focus on The Right Things When Your Child Is Struggling with Substances, with Cathy Cioth

ABOUT THE EPISODE: 

There's a certain shift that occurs when you stop charging at your child's substance use and instead learn to back in quietly, treats in hand, like Rocky Kanaka (Sitting With Dogs) approaching a terrified shelter dog. 

In this conversation with Cathy, you'll discover how this counterintuitive approach, born from watching a man give positive affirmations to traumatized pit bulls, might actually hold the key to reconnecting with your own frightened, defensive teenager. (you have to listen now, right?!)

Your child, barricaded behind substance use and sending desperate signals that "all is not okay," shares more with those cornered shelter dogs than you might want to admit. They're both scared, hurting, expecting another confrontation. 

Cathy's vulnerable admission—that she never found the words "Wow, I hear you. How can I help you?"—illuminates the cognitive friction so many parents experience when their instinct to fix collides with their child's need to simply be witnessed.

What you’ll learn:

• Why hours spent researching treatment centers might be less effective than learning to sit quietly with your child's discomfort
• How holding boundaries actually signals to your child that you're willing to fight for them (even when they're furious)
• The strategic choreography of "backing in" versus coming at your child head-on with aggression and defensive body language
• Why starting with small boundaries—perhaps not even with your substance-using child—builds the mental fortitude for more significant ones
• The liberating realization that a pissed-off kid is infinitely preferable to the alternative

Cathy and I map the delicate territory between “jellyfish parenting” and authoritarian rigidity, where boundaries become acts of love and your willingness to endure discomfort becomes its own form of medicine. 

EPISODE RESOURCES: 

• Hopestream episode 215: A Powerful Combo of Proven Tools for Families When Your Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol, with Dr. Jennifer Fernandez (why people use a particular substance) 
• Sitting With Dogs on YouTube 

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Transcript

Cathy: In a kind way. We all have to, as parents look at what our role is in this. I wish I had done that. 'cause I think that would've helped to say, okay, how can I approach this in a more compassionate way and how, how can I learn myself how to talk to my kid and not. Come at them when they're desperately sending up these signals that all is not okay, mom, really bad. And I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm watching you saying it's bad, but I also don't know how to say, wow, I hear you. How can I help you? I, those words never came out.

[00:00:45] Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain [00:01:00] clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless.

[00:01:06] Brenda: You are not helpless, and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources hopestreamcommunity.org.

[00:01:19] Brenda: Hey 

[00:01:19] Cathy: Cathy, 

[00:01:21] Brenda: here 

[00:01:21] Cathy: we are. Hi, Brenda. Back on the YouTube. It sounds like back on the YouTube. Sounds like, do you remember when Skype was the thing? Yes. And my father-in-law used to call it the Skypey. He was so cute. The Skypey. He'd say, oh, the Skypey. He'd always say The Skypey, the. It was really sweet. That's very cute.

[00:01:39] Cathy: So I need to ask, and I know this isn't related to, well, it is related to Hopes Dream, but I know your sweet dog, who I just adore. He's, how many pounds is he? He's, he is about 80 pounds. He's, he's a huge dog. He's a big dog, but he is just a bundle of love. And I hear that he's [00:02:00] having some. Tummy troubles and I, I really wanna get this out of the way.

[00:02:04] Cathy: How is he doing? He, how is sweet, sweet boy doing our 

[00:02:08] Brenda: four-legged employee who may make an appearance back here now that we're on the YouTube and you all can see when we're, where we're recording, he, we thought he was good. We went a couple days with no, um.

[00:02:23] Cathy: You could just go ahead. Liquid. Liquid. You know what? Liquid explosions 

[00:02:28] Brenda: all over the living room floor. Thank goodness. It's, you know, not carpet, but we woke up this morning. You know, when you walk out, dog. Dog owners will know this when you walk out the door from your bedroom and like for us, we go downstairs to the living room level and the smell hits you.

[00:02:47] Brenda: Oh man. Oh man. And you love your dog so much. I know. And you're looking at the floor just covered in all of their stuff and you're like, no, and you can't 

[00:02:59] Cathy: help it. [00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] Brenda: They can't help it. I know they can't help it, but I did see, okay, I can't even use our IT c skills with my dog because I can still have compassion for him instead of getting mad at him.

[00:03:13] Brenda: 'cause when I first had our little dog. Before I knew any of this stuff, he was a little, um, multi shihtzu poodle. 

[00:03:22] Cathy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:23] Brenda: And when he would do something like that, I would get so mad at him and I would yell at him. 'cause I didn't really understand, you know, I was just thinking about it from my perspective of like, I have to clean this up and I have to deal with this.

[00:03:35] Brenda: And I, you know, me, me, me. And so now I can say to Roscoe in our little conversation, buddy, I'm so sorry. Your stomach must hurt so bad, and I'm sorry that you're going through this. And so we had a little conversation and I, you know, gave him some positive affirmations like, you know, Rocky Katas on sitting with [00:04:00] dogs, which.

[00:04:01] Brenda: I don't know. We, we did the sort of a one-off podcast episode that's coming up here in a few weeks that you all will, um, appreciate. That's, I think, but it's very unrelated to, somewhat unrelated to what we do. Maybe we need to see if we can get Rocky Kanaka on 'cause he That's a good idea actually. Yeah.

[00:04:20] Brenda: Oh gosh. She's so awesome. If you don't listen to sitting with dogs, I mean, watch sitting with dogs on YouTube since you're on YouTube now. Watching this since we are on YouTube now. Yes. Come find us. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So search. Sitting with Dogs, you will Die. 'cause it is the most amazing show and he really does.

[00:04:41] Brenda: Like this guy sits in kennels, it shelters and talks to dogs and he gives them positive. He's amazing informations. 

[00:04:48] Cathy: He is amazing. I got so caught up. I found him scrolling social media and. I was like, who is this guy? And oh my gosh, just the love [00:05:00] and care he had for these dogs that looked absolutely petrified, sitting in the corner of these big kennels.

[00:05:06] Cathy: They tended to be really big dogs. That's the other thing I noticed about his work. Yeah. Um, well, you know, okay, I have to go 

[00:05:14] Brenda: here. You know me. I can't. So the first time I ever, I think you. You plugged me into sitting with dogs, I think, and the first time I watched it with my husband, who's also a dog lover, and he said, oh my gosh, you should do like sitting with kids, sitting with teens.

[00:05:33] Brenda: Oh my gosh. Who are struggling because there are so many similarities with he's in there and he always, you're right, he picks the dog who looks the most vicious, like he picks the black. Yeah. Yeah, shepherds pit bulls, like he picks the dog who he thinks is never gonna get adopted because he wants to socialize them and get them to be a little bit more friendly, right?

[00:05:56] Brenda: So he goes in and he has his very [00:06:00] strategic way of sitting in the kennel, how he positions his camera, how he brings his treats, how he offers the treat, not open hand, you know, closed hand versus open hand. Yeah. Hello? That is what we are doing with our kids. We are finding strategic ways to back in. Right.

[00:06:20] Brenda: Which is what he does in the kennel. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To back in not coming at it front, from the front with a lot of aggression and a lot of noise and a lot of like, but we come in with things that they like, like treats. Um, but you literally, that's the first thing my husband said. He's like, oh my gosh, you have to do sitting with kids.

[00:06:39] Brenda: Like, I 

[00:06:40] Cathy: love that. Okay. Shout out to your husband. What a great idea. Right? That is so true. I mean, what a great analogy, because it is true. I know before I knew all of this, I would always come at my kids with so much aggression. My face, sh I know one of our members talked about, yeah, I really have to [00:07:00] watch my face because oh, I, I understood that.

[00:07:03] Cathy: I was like that, you know, my, my face showed everything, my body language. And it was, I was ready for a fight. And, uh, you know, surprise, we always ended up in a fight. It was terrible. And so I love that, you know, backing in and watching our body language, our face, and just showing up with that compassion.

[00:07:26] Cathy: Right? 

[00:07:26] Brenda: Yes. And 

[00:07:27] Cathy: knowing that our, our kids are so scared. 

[00:07:29] Brenda: They're so scared and they're so hurting. Mm-hmm. And they don't wanna show it. And so. Anyway. Okay. That's our plug for sitting with dogs, but, but that's our not sponsor. 

[00:07:41] Cathy: What, that's our segue, what we're talking about today. 

[00:07:44] Brenda: It right? It totally is. It totally is.

[00:07:47] Brenda: Yeah. So anyway, thanks for asking about Roscoe. We'll check in on the next one and see how he's doing. 

[00:07:53] Cathy: I'm, he sounds better soon. I know it's a lot and I'm hoping that the cleanup wasn't too bad. I [00:08:00] don't even wanna talk about it. 

[00:08:01] Brenda: Anyway. So this episode we wanted to talk about not getting lost in the details, which is probably a weird, uh, subject.

[00:08:12] Brenda: But Kathy and I spend a lot of time talking with different folks, uh, you know, in different like groups, different organizations, different parts of governmental agencies. Just, you know, we try to stay plugged in and so. We noticed recently that there is naturally a big tendency to look at substances and billions of dollars of research being done on substances and what they do to the adolescent brain and all of that, which is great.

[00:08:45] Brenda: Like we need to know what these substances do to the brain. I think we could probably just boil it down to say it's all bad. All of it's bad on an adolescent brand. 

[00:08:55] Cathy: I would a hundred percent agree with that comment. 

[00:08:58] Brenda: Case closed. So, [00:09:00] but what we realized, we got off one call this week where we literally had an hour long conversation about fentanyl and about, you know, all the stuff that is coming after Fentanyl.

[00:09:13] Brenda: Now there's car fentanyl, there's um. Uh, what do you call it? The fentanyl and, and, um, Xylazine mix, which is Tine. Xylazine. That's right. Xylazine. Xylazine is an animal tranquilizer, and unfortunately, if, if it has more xylazine than fentanyl, then Narcan won't work as well, but still give Narcan anyway, so we get off this call for over an hour and we looked at each other.

[00:09:42] Brenda: We were like, you know what? It is really easy for us and for parents to get lost in the details and obsessed with the details, and there's a bigger message that we need to be paying 

[00:09:58] Cathy: attention to. Right. [00:10:00] Oh, absolutely. I mean, I don't know about you, but I was so lost in the details and look to this day, sometimes I get lost in those details.

[00:10:10] Cathy: Frankly, let's, let's be clear. It's absolutely shocking. It's a different drug landscape these days. Drugs are far more dangerous. They're, they're life takers and, you know, and so I think it's really easy because I think we come from a, from a base of absolute fear, um, about what our kids are using. You know, this isn't just.

[00:10:35] Cathy: This isn't the Coors Light, they're drinking and, you know, getting away with it. It's not the, definitely not the, um, pot and THC products that were available 20 years ago. It's, it's very different. It's different. 

[00:10:48] Brenda: So, and, and that's an easy one. That's an easy detail to get caught up in. Mm-hmm. As well as, uh, you know, IEPs.

[00:10:59] Brenda: And [00:11:00] the school and academic things that we need to focus on and treatment and this kind of treatment or that kind of treatment. And we're not saying that those things are bad, but what we realized when we got off this call is if your child is in the situation where they're using substances more than just like, oh, I, I.

[00:11:22] Brenda: I tried pot and yeah, whatever, like I could take it or leave it and you know, and they're living their life and it's not derailing their life. Right? If, if your kid's at a position where it is derailing their life, it is having a negative impact, you, maybe they're not willing to admit it, but you can see the impact that it's having.

[00:11:41] Brenda: That is the loudest smoke signal that your child could send. That there is a big problem somewhere. You may not know what it is. They may not even really know what it is, but what you're seeing is a huge smoke signal and it is [00:12:00] so easy to get lost in the details of the smoke. So you got smoke going on over here, like the police are showing up, the school is calling, you know, they're stumbling around in the park drunk or whatever, like all these things.

[00:12:14] Brenda: And so then we can get really busy over here. For those of you that are listening and not watching, I'm now on the other side of my chair. We can be really busy over here doing all kinds of research and, and I went down this rabbit hole because I am a total mm-hmm. Research nerd and I love all of that.

[00:12:30] Brenda: And I would spend hours researching, you know, 5 million things. And what we're doing then is we're sort of not paying attention to the most important thing, which is. Something is horribly wrong with my child and I, I probably have a part in that there. Other parent, co-parent, ex, whatever has a part in that.

[00:12:57] Brenda: There could be some trauma in the [00:13:00] past and those things are really uncomfortable to deal with, like absolutely fun. And so I, what we just wanted to make sure and highlight is that. Do all the things that you need to do, for sure. Figure out the IEP program, figure out, you know, what treatment would be best, but don't spend so much time over there that you're avoiding the reality of what you need 

[00:13:28] Cathy: to deal with.

[00:13:29] Cathy: Yeah, yeah. That those potential root causes. Right. The why. Yes, the why behind the why. I think that, you know, I did that as well. I think that it's just a common reaction to do that and, and frankly, you know, the school was doing that too, you know, and you know, there were people fanning flames as well. I wish I had taken a little bit of time to really.

[00:13:57] Cathy: You know, as we say, go to the [00:14:00] balcony view to survey everything. Yeah. And, and to really say what is really going on here. Um, I think that that would've been really helpful in our situation. Um. You mentioned like what is my role in this? You know, not once did I ask what is my role? And I remember that was a huge, 

[00:14:26] Brenda: Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life-changing for so many women who started right where you might be by listening to the.

[00:14:34] Brenda: If you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through, there is a place designed specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers who are parenting teens and young adults through substance use. The mental health struggles, and when I say private, I mean completely confidential.

[00:14:55] Brenda: It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your [00:15:00] business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background.

[00:15:14] Brenda: Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery, you'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices because we know you wanna see positive change in your family.

[00:15:40] Brenda: Check it out@hopedreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay, back to the show, 

[00:15:51] Cathy: aha moment. And also really hard to hear when my kids went to wilderness therapy. You know, I, I'll never forget this amazing therapist said [00:16:00] in a kind way, we all have to, as parents look at what our role is in this.

[00:16:06] Cathy: I wish I had done that. Because I think that would've helped to say, okay, how can I approach this in a more compassionate way and how? How can I learn myself how to talk to my kid and not come at them when they're desperately sending up these signals That all is not okay. Mom, you can really bad. Yes. And I'm kind of like, yeah, I'm watching you saying it's bad, but I also don't know how to say, wow, I hear you.

[00:16:37] Cathy: How can I help you? I, those words never came out. Right? I wish they had. 

[00:16:44] Brenda: Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned the balcony, because we do talk about that within the community. Maybe not so much on the podcast, but what Kathy's talking about is trying to extract yourself from the minutia, the chaos, the day to day, the moment by moment, pull yourself up.

[00:16:59] Brenda: Imagine [00:17:00] yourself in a beautiful theater, and you go up into the balcony seat and you're able to observe. What's going on from a, a place where you're not connected to the crazy, you can actually watch it. Or the other, I know in therapy a lot, they'll have, you imagine you're watching your life on a movie screen, right?

[00:17:22] Brenda: So you're sitting there and you're watching on a screen. The, the net of it is you're a little disconnected. So you're seeing this from a different perspective and. One thing that we've talked about is the balcony seat is great because you get a different perspective. It's also often very uncomfortable because that's where you start to see, oh, this isn't just my kid's smoking a lot of THC vaping.

[00:17:51] Brenda: My kid isn't just, you know, hiding handles of vodka in her closet. Those are the [00:18:00] symptoms. Mm-hmm. And. I've been really focused on the symptoms from the balcony seat. You have to look at why are they doing that? And you know, we both had kids who, and I imagine most people have kids who don't at 15, 16, 17, or 23 or 24 say, Hey mom, I have a really big problem.

[00:18:26] Brenda: I had this, you know, X, Y, Z trauma that happened when I was in second grade, or I have massive anxiety and I really need to have you help me figure out a healthy way to manage that in my life so that I can have a full, whole independent life. Did your kids ever say that to you? Oh yeah, all the time. All the trick.

[00:18:49] Brenda: So what they do instead, oh man, is they find solutions. They find ways that we can look at as big, loud [00:19:00] megaphones saying that exact thing, but disguised in very unhealthy behavior. 

[00:19:07] Cathy: Yeah. 

[00:19:08] Brenda: And just like, you know what I had to do with Roscoe and overlook that behavior. You know, he wasn't like purposefully deciding, I'm gonna have diarrhea all over the kitchen floor, mom, that is what he did to tell me I'm sick.

[00:19:25] Brenda: I am sick. I need you to take me to the doctor. To the vet. So it's, it's can be uncomfortable in the balcony seat because, oh, sometimes what you find is not what 

[00:19:38] Cathy: you wanna find. But it also that uncomfortableness, as we know, often leads us to the solution that we need. Mm-hmm. Right. And so that's the thing is that I think, you know, this kind of leads into, for me at least, it was all around the control, right?

[00:19:54] Cathy: It felt so much better when I could kind of control, like you say, the research, the, [00:20:00] you know, I felt like I was being proactive. But really I wasn't. Right. So what I needed to do was get back, be uncomfortable, and I think that answer would've shown up a little better. Mm-hmm. Because truly that did happen for me.

[00:20:14] Cathy: You know, when I kind of went back, found my role in it, figured out what I needed to do, um. Read a great book. I read Anatomy A Peace, I'll Never Forget. Mm. And it was, you know, it's all about relationships and all of that. And I love that because I never, ever took that viewpoint of how can I be in a place where I can be more helpful and come to a place of understanding and compassion.

[00:20:43] Brenda: Mm. The Anatomy of Peace That's, we'll put that in the show. The Anatomy of Peace. 

[00:20:47] Cathy: Mm-hmm. 

[00:20:47] Brenda: Yeah. That, uh. That's interesting because I think from the outside, looking at somebody, looking at you, just knowing you, they probably would've [00:21:00] said, you are the most loving, the most helpful, the most giving, right? Like no one would've described Kathy Trot as a selfish, you know, demanding, like self-absorbed human being.

[00:21:15] Brenda: It can be really sneaky because we can think of ourselves as being so loving and kind and giving, and of course you probably are. But there are some of those ways that we interact with our kids. And again, we are not saying yours, the cause of your child's substance use. It's how we react to that. That either draws them closer to us, right?

[00:21:39] Brenda: Or. Pushes them further away to say, Hmm, she is not somebody that I feel safe with going to to have this conversation. I for sure was not one of those safe 

[00:21:50] Cathy: parents that time. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, they would say the same about you, Brenda, you know, kind and loving. But the reality is, is that we, [00:22:00] you can be kind and loving.

[00:22:03] Cathy: But that doesn't always mean that you're open to hearing other things and open, you know, how open are you to your child? And so, um, you know, it's kind of nuanced, right? I mean, you know, and I don't really wanna get into semantics of the words and everything, but really it is about, you know, being uncomfortable with what you're, you know, I think.

[00:22:28] Cathy: Back then, I had a lot of shame around the actual drug use that was going on. I, I just, I couldn't believe that was happening to our family. And so that layer of shame really kind of tainted this loving mom, you know? Mm-hmm. Because there was that kind of disgust, you know, that would show up. And even un unknowingly I was doing that.

[00:22:53] Cathy: Right. Right. Um, because again, I did not see. I didn't, [00:23:00] I I, the smoke signal I saw, like you say, was the drug use. I did not see what was underneath that and causing that smoke to come up. 

[00:23:08] Brenda: Yeah. We are just focused on, I gotta put this fire out so I don't see the smoke anymore. 

[00:23:13] Cathy: Yes. 

[00:23:14] Brenda: Yeah. And that, yeah, that, of course we wanna put the fire out.

[00:23:17] Brenda: Of course we wanna have them stop ingesting substances. But even if they did stop. If my son had just stopped taking Xanax when he was in high school. 'cause at the time this was pre Fentanyl, so there was still real, I say real, it was, it was synthetic, it was manufactured, um, you know, illicitly manufactured Xanax.

[00:23:43] Brenda: Mm-hmm. But even, you know, well, I guess he did because he went to treatment and he was fine. Right. He stopped ingesting Xanax. Was he better? No. So when he had the opportunity [00:24:00] to do that again, he did that again. So it's less about A, the substance itself, alcohol, Xanax, Percocet, Oxy, fentanyl, THC. Yeah. Okay.

[00:24:15] Brenda: That's, that becomes important when you're trying to figure out treatment, if they're willing to go and if you can get them into treatment, a hundred percent important. And I know some psychologists that I have had on the podcast have said that can also be a clue to what they're potentially dealing with.

[00:24:30] Brenda: 'cause if it's meth Oh yeah. That tells a bit of a different story than if it's Oxy. Right. And we won't get into that. Um, I'll put a link in the show notes to, I think the episode that is the best, um, to explain that. So it's really easy to get lost in all of that, and it doesn't matter what the substance is.

[00:24:54] Brenda: I, you know, I was so obsessed with why is my son taking Xanax? I did [00:25:00] so much research. Why is he taking Xanax? Um, I did so much to, I spent so much time and did so much research on why is this happening? Which is, it was good. For me to at least recognize that there was a reason this was happening. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:18] Brenda: But I was looking at it from the perspective of what did I do? Like where like, I must be at fault for this and I am gonna figure out where I went wrong, which was not helpful. Again, very me focused. Right. And so it's hard. Yeah. So your, 

[00:25:38] Cathy: your role in that was the wrong role if you were looking at, you caused it 

[00:25:44] Brenda: Yes.

[00:25:45] Cathy: Complete, right? Right. 

[00:25:46] Brenda: Yes. It's a little meta, right? Because what we're saying is yes, you do have a role. Yeah. However, if you spend all your try time trying to figure out like, what did I do and was it this day or that day, or this thing that I said, or whatever, [00:26:00] again. It's not just one thing. Like we need to spend the time to really understand the bigger picture.

[00:26:07] Brenda: And, you know, I, I spent, if I just used some of those hours that I had spent researching all of that to really saying, oh, what is my son going through? And like we were saying the beginning, like back into the kennel with some treats. Something that exactly would've said, I am here nonjudgmentally. I don't care that you look terrible.

[00:26:34] Brenda: I don't care that you are, you know, swearing at me or whatever. I'm gonna back in without my defenses up with something that I hope can connect us. And I am just going to sit here with you and listen. That would've gotten me a lot further than my hours and hours and hours searching Google. 

[00:26:53] Cathy: I love that. I love that you tied that all back in.

[00:26:57] Cathy: That was 'cause it, it really is [00:27:00] such a beautiful thing is just to be there and to show up for our kids and, and you know, and I think that's a great way of saying it, that you're showing up without all those big defenses there, right? Yeah. And, and that is the time when most people will say. I need, I need something.

[00:27:22] Cathy: You're just showing you're non-threatening and you're, you're there when they need the help. 

[00:27:29] Brenda: And I know it can feel very like somebody's probably listening, going, yeah, but you haven't seen my kid when they're pissed off or when I hold a boundary and the way they get. Mm-hmm. Oh, trust us, we have been there.

[00:27:44] Brenda: It is very difficult. It is sometimes scary. But what we always say is better to have a super pissed off kid than a dead kid. Yeah. And that sounds really dramatic and it is really the [00:28:00] truth because Kathy and I have gotten the chat message in our community more than once, saying, I lost my son. Yeah. And that is 

[00:28:13] Cathy: beyond devastating.

[00:28:15] Cathy: It is. It absolutely is. And you know, look, stay safe. You know? That is true. You know, and our kids, it's, it's again, being uncomfortable. There are gonna be times when you're gonna be uncomfortable 'cause you held a boundary and your kid is so angry and mad at you. Mm-hmm. And you know. Make sure you're safe, you know?

[00:28:39] Cathy: 'cause there is a difference. Obviously they could be mad, but they could also be attacking and we don't want that. And so definitely, you know, make sure you're safe. Um, but yeah, you're, you know, it's uncomfortable. It is. And I'll tell you, it, it does get better. I mean, I don't know about you, Brenda, but I found that, [00:29:00] you know, when I would hold boundaries, the more I did it, the anger dissipated, you know, between.

[00:29:07] Cathy: You know, my, my kid and I, you know, that it was kind of, oh yeah, well she's just gonna do this now. So I know it doesn't work when I get angry and mad and, you know, the boundaries tends to be more solid. Mm-hmm. And so, um, that was my experience. And I don't know if you've had that so's. I did, I mean, just to clarify around now, we're under boundaries, but somehow boundaries come in every single episode.

[00:29:31] Cathy: Boundaries come in every time, 

[00:29:33] Brenda: but I, I really didn't know anything about boundaries until late in the game for us. However, I agree when I started having boundaries and holding them, I think my son actually really respected me for it. He never showed me that at the time. You know, you, you get the anger, you get the like, super pissed off kid.

[00:29:54] Brenda: Yeah, and luckily I had a fantastic therapist who had warned me, [00:30:00] Hey, just, you know, know that when you do this, he is going to be very, very pissed off and that's okay. Pissed off is okay. So, and you're right, it did sort of lessen each time and I think that it showed him that I was willing to fight for him.

[00:30:20] Brenda: I was willing to be uncomfortable. In this relationship to try to make it better. I wasn't gonna just be like the jellyfish and like, oh, okay. And I know that's when you're exhausted. Especially for our single parents, moms and dads. Holy cow. I don't know how you do it. I mean, I was brand new married when I went through this, but at least I did have somebody.

[00:30:45] Brenda: So for our single parents, we are just giving you a huge shout out Also. For our parents who have a kiddo and a spouse or partner who are also in a, that's right. Addictive spiral. [00:31:00] That is extremely difficult. And I do have a guest coming up who addresses that, uh, which will be very helpful. But yeah, it's, um, it's just, I think you have to do it a few times.

[00:31:15] Brenda: Get brave, do an experiment and just say. Hold this boundary a couple times just to see what happens. 

[00:31:22] Cathy: And 

[00:31:23] Brenda: it takes a couple of 

[00:31:23] Cathy: times for sure. Start, start small. Mm-hmm. Start small. Yeah. I'm not saying because truly that's what a boundary is, right? You, you, if you start too big and then you can't hold to it, then, then that, that's not good either.

[00:31:37] Cathy: So yes, start small with the boundary that you're pretty sure you can keep. Maybe it's not with your loved one who's using substances, right? Maybe it's with someone you know that you trust, your spouse, your friend, whatever that is, your parent. Yes. Start small. Yes. And I, I guarantee it. It will make you feel better when you learn that you can hold a little bit of [00:32:00] boundary and then work up to it, so.

[00:32:01] Cathy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

[00:32:03] Brenda: Excellent. Well, we could go on and on, but we can, we will wrap it up here and we have. A couple of really exciting episodes coming up this season. If you're listening in real time, it's, it's, I guess it is officially fall. Is it officially fall of 2025? No, like a couple more days. I think it's September.

[00:32:22] Brenda: A couple more days. And really depends where you are. True. That's true. That's true. Some 

[00:32:26] Cathy: states have experienced fall already. 

[00:32:28] Brenda: Yes. And also in other countries. 'cause we have listeners, um, shout out to our listeners in Oceania from. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa is listening. Europe is listening. So exciting.

[00:32:43] Brenda: I mean, it's, it's a bummer. I'm sorry that you're listening. We have the weirdest podcast. It's like, we're 

[00:32:49] Cathy: so sorry you're listening. I know, but you know what you think this is, this is an issue, right? That goes global. Right? And so I'm so glad that we can be a resource for all of our [00:33:00] parents in all these other countries and.

[00:33:03] Cathy: Um, you know, we're glad you're here and I'm, I'm glad what we do. I'm glad we're online so we could all be there to support each other and share information. 

[00:33:13] Brenda: Yep. If you like this, Kathy and I, in between these episodes, we hang out in the stream with all of our Amazing That's right. Hundreds of incredible moms who are all just like you, just working the hardest to do the thing that they can do.

[00:33:26] Brenda: So we'd love to have you in there. Come join 

[00:33:29] Cathy: us. All right. Talk to you later. Talk to you later, Brenda. Bye-bye. 

[00:33:36] Brenda: Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related.

[00:33:49] Brenda: We even have a start here playlist that we created, so if you're new here, be sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to [00:34:00] approach your child's substance use. We have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol.

[00:34:10] Brenda: It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent.

[00:34:34] Brenda: It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light, and I will meet you right back here next week.