Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction

The Best Way To Not Say or Do The Wrong Thing, At The Wrong Time, with Cathy Cioth

• Brenda Zane, Cathy Cioth • Season 6 • Episode 291

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

We've all been there. A tense or heated conversation where something flies out of your mouth that you don't really mean, or you inflict your 'help' when it's not wanted or needed. You might, at times, find yourself solving a problem that has nothing to do with you, or you give well-intentioned advice to someone who will never, ever take it.

Enter our favorite Hopestream tool...the Lip Clip. A metaphorical device that prevents you from jumping in when you should really stay back, and gives you a magical opportunity to observe before acting. The problem is, when and how do you use the Lip Clip to its maximum effectiveness?

In this episode, you'll learn what situations the Lip Clip is best suited for, how to apply it so you get the most out of it, and, importantly, when and how not to use it. As always, Cathy and I give personal examples from our lives and you'll walk away with a clear idea of how you can put this powerful little tool to use with a challenging child, or anyone in your life who tends to trigger you to act in ways you'd rather not.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

Hopestream episode with Dr. Mark McConville - Getting Unstuck From Failure To Launch Mode (ep. 51)

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Cathy:

I am hearing the conversation going on and I'm listening to the problem, and then all of a sudden it's like everything becomes dull and my brain starts taking over. Like, this is how I would do it. This is how I would do it. And I, you know, and Oh, oh, okay. And I stopped listening. Truly. To, you know, what's going on, and I'm more wrapped up in how to solve it. It's, it's almost like this glaze comes over my eyes and I'm, I'm like, okay, I'm all ready to go.

Brenda:

Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly. Find real hope in what might feel helpless. You are not helpless and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources@hopestreamcommunity.org. Welcome to the Hope Dream podcast. Kathy,

Cathy:

by the way, can I just say how much I'm loving your new office situation? Hey,

Brenda:

you know what this is. This is called your 25-year-old moves out of the house and. You get to use his room now as an office. And so I

Cathy:

tell you, it's

Brenda:

a little stage right now 'cause I'm, I'm gonna paint, I'm gonna like, I'm super excited to get it set up 'cause I've been in, for those of you who don't know, I've been in a spare bedroom. Actually when I started in 2020, I, we, we, it was COVID lockdown. Right. And we didn't have any space. Oh yeah. We were in a teeny, tiny little condo. So I would sit at our dresser in our bedroom. And you know there's nowhere for your knees to go when you're sitting at a dresser, right? Right. So I would have like, my legs are like this on our kitchen stool or on our bar stool sitting at the dresser. And my husband took a picture one day. I gotta find that.'cause it is. So funny. That's

Cathy:

so

Brenda:

funny. So I've come a long way to even get here. You've come a long

Cathy:

way. Look at that. My Amazon

Brenda:

olive tree. Do you like it? I like

Cathy:

it. I like the olive tree. I like a little, I can share a, a link to

Brenda:

it.

Cathy:

It's very cute. I think you should. Put it in the, put it in the show notes. I will Maybe other people. It even has little,

Brenda:

it even has little olives on it. They're so cute. Does it really? Yeah.

Cathy:

I love olive trees. Yeah. It must be the Italian background. I love trees. The, they're so pretty. It's the,

Brenda:

it's the Italian thing.

Cathy:

I'm sure your husband approves, he does Italian approve. He does love olive tree. It,

Brenda:

he does. He likes it. So, yes. Thank you. It's it's coming. It will start looking better because we are. Starting to publish these on YouTube. I didn't think anybody would listen on YouTube, but apparently women 40 to 60 are on YouTube looking for stuff like this. Who knew? Okay, who knew? So here we are. So now Kathy and I actually have to like, put on makeup before we do a podcast episode. That's okay.

Cathy:

That's okay. It's probably good for us. I'll do it. And I think it's, I think it's good for us to show up without makeup sometimes too. That will happen for sure. You know what? That is the reality of most of our days.

Brenda:

That is for sure gonna happen. So okay, so we just wanted to do a quickie. I think this is gonna be a short episode, but it is, it comes, comes up. All the time in our community. Oh my gosh. Because I don't know, when did we start talking about the lip clip? I don't even know when years ago. You

Cathy:

know, I wish we, I wish I knew because it was so funny and we had so much fun when we started talking about the lip clip that we were, I mean, oh my gosh. We were, do remember all the little. You know, memes that we were putting in. Yes. And we were saying like, oh, you know, we gotta, we actually gotta get a little, a real lip clip. I mean

Brenda:

yes.

Cathy:

We talk about the lip clip all the time, every single day and everyone loves it. Yeah. Every

Brenda:

day. However, yeah. What we realize lately is that there, there may be a little bit of confusion mm-hmm. On lip clip application. Mm-hmm. And the proper, yes. The proper use and the proper time to use the lip clip. So this is your lip clip application tutorial.

Cathy:

This is, this is the manual for the lip clip. Yes. In case you're wondering, you know, when to use the lip clip and when not to use it. You know, definitely when not to, we're gonna troubleshoot this whole thing.

Brenda:

We're troubleshooting. We should. This is like an un uh, it's not an unboxing, but Yeah, it's a troubleshooting episode.

Cathy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Brenda:

So. What is a lip clip? Kathy, why don't you explain for us, for the people listening who are like, what are these two women talking about?

Cathy:

So the lip clip is our kind of fun way of taking a tool from the invitation to change approach. And it's the pause button when we have communication, right? So it's, it's the lip clip is. Equal to hitting the pause button, but more fun. I'm trying to make it as but more fun. Definitely more

Brenda:

fun. And I think because it actually holds your lips closed, it feels a little bit more powerful than a pause button.'cause if I'm pressing the pause button, my mouth can still be moving.

Cathy:

Right. And you can, you can still say, but, but, but uh, you know, you can still kind of say things right. This is tough. It is. I mean, you know, you, you know, it seemed always, I remember when I first heard about the pause button and you know, ITC and thinking like, okay, that's not so hard, but it really is hard.

Brenda:

Yes, it's really hard. And I think our moms, from what I have seen of how they describe how they use it. Are phenomenal. Like they're getting really, really good because they described some of the situations where their child is talking to them, child meaning maybe 16, maybe 26. And they, in the past would have said one thing and because they now have a lip clip, they do not say that thing. That's, but what we also wanna make sure and talk about is what the lip clip is not, it is not avoidance. It is not just not saying anything. So we get to say what we need to say. We just wanna say it in a way that it isn't gonna blow up in our face. Right. Because even Right, sometimes you just wanna like say something, 'cause you just wanna get it off your chest, or you just think you're right or you have the answer. And if they could just hear this right, they would change or whatever. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they won't. So that's why we teach in, in the community and, and through the podcast we teach strategic ways to have these conversations that give you the best chance of having success. We cannot guarantee success, obviously, right? We don't have the answer, but we, we definitely have the tools. That if you use them, it sets you up for the best chance of having a positive conversation. Right? And so what the lip clip is not is just shutting up, taking bad behavior, taking, you know verbal abuse, not saying what you need to say. That is not what it is, right? So we just wanna be very clear about that. It is not silencing us. It is giving us the time and the space. To use the appropriate response. So we really like the Al-Anon saying of say what you mean. Mean what you say. Don't say it mean, don't say it mean I love it. I love it. Say that

Cathy:

again.

Brenda:

Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Don't say it mean. There is never a reason to say something mean. And I know how easy that is. When you have somebody in your world who is doing things that make you angry or make you frustrated or make you right, like what? What could they possibly be thinking? But it does not do anybody any good to say it mean, which is why we apply the lip clip. So we thought we would go through first, when do you use the lip clip, and then we'll talk about how so.

Cathy:

And we might give little stories of things that we tend to do that we tend to give a little story, like when has this happened to you?

Brenda:

So, yes. So I would say a really good time to use the lip clip is when you feel like you just need to insert your opinion into a conversation. This might be with your child, it might also be with coworkers or a boss or a partner or a parent, and, and you really. You're just trying to get your opinion in there, or you're just trying to add something to the conversation and you really don't need to, is a really good time to use it.

Cathy:

Mm-hmm.

Brenda:

Mm-hmm. I don't really have a story about this because this is pretty much every day of my life, so I just go through every day. I literally, somebody will say something and I think, do I need to add anything to this? Yeah. And usually the answer is, Nope, I do not. I could. Yeah, I definitely could.

Cathy:

Yeah.

Brenda:

But I do not. So yeah, that's one. What do you think? Yeah,

Cathy:

that's a good one. That's a good one. Especially when you say like, is it gonna make a difference? Right. You know, I mean, right. When our kids are sharing something and you, we know our kids, they're, they're gung-ho. They're usually very proactive in what they're gonna do and they're gonna do it so. Our opinions really aren't gonna sway. Necessarily what they want to do. So

Brenda:

like when's the last time you gave your child your opinion? And they were like, oh my gosh, mom, you are so right. I should not be using a vape THC pen in the bathroom in my sophomore year of high school. Thank you for enlightening me with that information.

Cathy:

Yeah, no, never.

Brenda:

Never.

Cathy:

I, I, I honestly, and we have, I have really great relationship with my kids now, and I'm thinking. Even in the last few years, has that happened? I don't think so. So, no.

Brenda:

Nope. Never. I would That's a good one. Yeah. And then another time is, and this happens all the time. Mm-hmm. When our kids are doing crazy things is when you're highly emotional, something has just happened. Right. And. That is the time when you are most prone to saying something that you do not wanna say, right? You're gonna probably throw out consequences that you're not gonna keep.

Cathy:

Mm-hmm.

Brenda:

I do recall this one. I in a very heated, emotional moment in front of a McDonald's, which was the local drug trading locale. Okay. I drug

Cathy:

trading and supersized. Hamburgers.

Brenda:

There was a little bit of like Xanax and fries going through the drive through.

Cathy:

Okay.

Brenda:

Okay. Uh, literally going through the drive through, which I found out later.

Cathy:

Wow.

Brenda:

Yeah.

Cathy:

Wow.

Brenda:

But I, I made in a very emotional statement that my son was never allowed to ever, ever, ever come home again. Ever. As long as he lived his life and he was 17, obviously I did not mean that. Oh yeah, but I did not understand. I did not have a lip clip and so I think the highly emotional time is a really, really important time. Yeah. You might wanna get the extra strength lip clip for that time. Have you ever said anything out of emotion that you regret later?

Cathy:

Oh. Never. I'm perfect. Good. I've never said anything great out of emotion so many times. So many times I have said things that, oh boy. And, but you know what? I will say, and I, I actually love the second part two of this because. Yes, I'm highly emotional at times and I have definitely, I, I can even say in the last four years there were were, and I should know better because I knew about the lip clip. But I've said things 'cause I've been highly emotional and not all the time with my kids by the way. It's been with elderly parents. That kind of, that's where I feel a little triggered. But you know what I love about this one is that I have gone back afterwards and said. I really blew it right there. Can I have take two or whatever that is, or, I know I said this, I didn't really mean it. I let my emotions get the best of me, so. I'm not sure how to respond right now, so I'm just gonna take this away. But I want you to know that I'm recognizing that I over, you know, was too emotional or whatever it is. Yeah. And I have to say that little part two of this one, it works so well because I know there are moms in our community that have said that, oh my gosh, I could not keep my mouth shut. I couldn't use a lip clip. And they always feel so relieved when we say, Hey, it's okay. Go back when, when things are calm, go, you know, don't, don't do it right away. Like, let things kind of simmer down. Yeah. You know, and then go back and say, yeah, this didn't really work. You're modeling for your kids a great. It's a great modeling tool. But I just love it because usually when, when the emotions are all calmed down, everyone's like, okay, yeah, I didn't mean that either, mom, you know, and, and all of that. Right.

Brenda:

Yeah. It is great modeling. I think it, it takes a lot of humility. I think it takes, yeah. But if you are willing, if you really want that relationship. Yeah, that's what it takes. So, yeah. Yeah,

Cathy:

for sure, for sure.

Brenda:

The other, another really good time is when you find yourself starting to give advice. Which we do tend to be very good at because we know everything. Uh, but when you're starting to give advice instead of asking open-ended questions, so again, with the Invitation to change approach, a big part of that is motivational interviewing. We have lots of podcast episodes on motivational interviewing and. You know, giving advice is not included in motivational interviewing. It's actually the opposite. So if you find yourself, you should, or you know, you should do this, you should do that. Well, if I were you, I would do this. Those are the times when you just whoop apply the lip clip. Yeah. And then figure out how you can turn that into an open-ended question, which probably sounds more like, wow. Well, what have you thought about? Oh, how have you thought about solving that problem? Oh, what do you think you're gonna do next? Oh, well, what have you already tried? And it's painful because we just wanna give them our advice and they're not gonna listen to it anyway, so that's right. Better to apply the lip clip for a minute. Think through those open-ended questions and then come back at it and try it from a different perspective. So good. So easy.

Cathy:

See here.

Brenda:

Wrapped up.

Cathy:

Yeah. All done. So easy. So easy.

Brenda:

So easy. Yes. And then I think another time really that, and maybe you have more, but another big time that I see this being really helpful is when you are tempted to solve a problem that is not your problem to solve. And that happens all the time.

Cathy:

It's so hard though. It's so hard. This is the hard one for me, you know? Yes. It really is. With our kids, especially where. Oh, gosh, I'm a little speechless because I get it. The, the, we do, you know, uh, we've talked about this before. Our kids are little. We've solved their problems forever, you know? Yeah. Oh, you're hungry. Here's, here's some food. You're sleepy, let's give you a nap, et cetera. And then they get older. The problems get bigger and. You know, we may have even had life experience with some of their problems. Yes. You know, especially so, but it really doesn't help them to, to try to solve them. It really doesn't. And you know, doing a disservice. So it's a great time for that lip clip for sure.

Brenda:

Yeah. We love the saying before you solve a problem. Make sure it's yours. Make that's right before you saw the problem. Make sure it's yours. Because if you do that little gut check, it's usually not, and you're really, I think I've done so many episodes about the backpack and how we really rob our kids of opportunities to learn. Mm-hmm. And I think about a time when my son was very early in recovery and he came to visit. And his, he got a message that his flight had been canceled, his flight home. Mm-hmm. And he would, he had planned to like literally get off the plane and go straight to his job when he got home. So there was not one minute to, to spare. And so all of a sudden now he was not gonna be able to make it to work. On the day when he was flying home. So my, I kid you not, I did not even blink. I picked up the phone, I dialed Alaska Airlines, you know, I just went into problem solving mode and then I caught myself and I was like, what am I doing? This is not my problem to solve. Yeah. Gosh, this is his problem to solve. And some of it's just habit, right? We mean, well, we're not for sure. We're certainly not trying to do it, but you know, we, because we know how to do it, we could do it quickly. And it was, he's very A DHD. And it was, I caught myself and I said, oh, buddy, I'm really sorry. I just jumped right in to solve this problem for you. This is nothing that I need to get involved with. Uh, you know, it's all you. And it was so painful because it was like, he's like, well, do you think I should do this or do you think I should do that? Or, well, what if there's not another flight? And, you know, for 15 minutes he kind of spun in that a DHD brain of like, oh my gosh. Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I'm gonna miss my shift and then I'm not gonna make enough money and then I'm not gonna have money for rent. You know? Yeah, he started doing that.

Cathy:

Yeah.

Brenda:

And so I just said, Hey, what do you think would happen if you just called the airline and told them, this actually doesn't work for me. I need to get home at the original time of my original flight. Like, what do you think would happen if you did that? Oh yeah, I guess I'll try that. And he did, and they just got him on a different flight. No problem. Wow. Wow. And so lesson learned, right? Yeah. I do not need to jump in and solve that problem. It took him a little longer. But now is he ever afraid to call the airline? Heck no. He just calls him up, says that this is what I need. Right, right, right. Because he was empowered to do that. So that's just a little example of, you know, really making sure this is my problem to solve. And if it is great. Solve it. Yeah. But if it's theirs,

Cathy:

I loved how you did that. I loved how you even said like you went right to call the airline and stopped yourself.

Brenda:

Yeah.

Cathy:

I mean, that's so great. You know? And then, yeah, just the empowerment that now he can do this whenever, you know, he will always remember, I think that little conversation you guys had. Yeah. You know, more than just. You letting him stew around, you know, you, you, you guided him in a very gentle way. And he still did it. Right? Right. I mean, it's not that you know, you, you. Mm. I love it. You came alongside him. Help

Brenda:

him. Yeah. We don't have to abandon them. I think that's another, you're not

Cathy:

abandoning them.

Brenda:

That's another misperception of the lip clip potentially is I'm just gonna abandon them and you don't need to do that. You know, you could still give guidance, but like Dr. I just re-listen to Dr. Mark McConnell's episode. I think it's called Failure to Launch When Your 20 something Kid Doesn't. Do, I don't know, I can't remember the t the title, we'll put it in the show notes. But Dr. Mark McConnell and he specializes in adolescents and young adults who kind of don't launch as planned. Right? And and he was saying this like, we, we need to become consultants at this age when our kids are, you know, literally like, we need to start doing this when they're like five or six. But certainly by the time they're in high school, and certainly by the time they're young adults, we are consultants to them. So. We, we basically don't have a lot of power, but we have a ton of influence. And so thinking, and that's kind of what I was thinking with him. It's like, what if I was in a work situation and one of my coworkers was spinning on like, oh, what do I do? What do I do and what, da da da? I think I would just say, oh, well what if you just called? Right? So the more you can think of yourself as a consultant, the lip clip is not meant to abandon them. It's not meant to just be like, well, you're on your own, buddy. Good luck. It's really, again, that. That time to think through what is the better response that I could give right now.

Cathy:

Fantastic. Love it.

Brenda:

Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life changing for so many women who started right where you might be. By listening to the show, if you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through, there is a place designed specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers, for parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential. It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background. Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward. Right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery. You'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices because we know you wanna see positive change in your family. Check it out@hopestreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay. Back to the show. How then do we apply the lip clip? It's pretty simple. I mean, it, it, it opens and it closes. There's not a lot of apparatus. Yeah. But I think it's important to. Listen to your body because your body is gonna tell you when the time is nearing to apply your lip clip. For me, it's erasing in my heart, kind of in my chest area. It starts to like, it feels like there's a million butterflies in there and they just mm-hmm. All wanna get out. And I'm like, Ooh, this means I am. I'm feeling the need to either inter interject or. Solve or whatever it is. And so that's when I know I better go to that junk drawer and find the clip and get it ready.'cause I'm gonna need it.

Cathy:

Right?

Brenda:

Yeah,

Cathy:

that's good. You know what it is for me, it's, I, I am. Hearing the conversation going on and I'm listening to the problem, and then all of a sudden it's like everything becomes dull and my brain starts taking over. Like, this is how I would do it. This is how I would do it. And I, you know, and Oh, oh, okay. I, and I. Stop listening truly. Mm-hmm. To, you know, what's going on, and I'm more wrapped up in how to solve it. Yes. And so, you know, I, for me, it's, it's, it is literally where I have to say, take a deep breath, don't solve it right now, and just listen. And I have to say that over and over and you know, and I can, I kind of can bring myself down, but yeah, it's, it's almost like this glaze comes over my eyes and I'm, I'm like, okay, I'm all ready to go. Let's all go. So,

Brenda:

yeah, you're, you're reloading up here. You're like, I'm

Cathy:

reloading formulating your, your

Brenda:

sentence. Yes. What is

Cathy:

it? The little, the little circle in the apple. You know, when, when you're waiting for something to load and it's. Going. That's what's, yeah. If you could imagine that's what's going on in my brain right now. Loading, loading, loading, loading,

Brenda:

loading. And I think it's okay too to say to the other person, like, if you've missed part of what they're, they're saying, because your brain is offline doing the other thing, I think it's okay to say, oh, oh. Could you say that again? I, I just found myself trying to solve a problem that's not mine and I, oh, I love that. Really wanna listen to you, but I need you to say that again.'cause I was not paying attention.

Cathy:

I love that. I'm a

Brenda:

big fan of just saying the truth, like, oh yeah, I was already trying to solve this problem in my head and I realized. I need to just stop and listen to you, and people really appreciate that because you're telling them the truth, you know? Yeah. You're just saying what's true. They really,

Cathy:

really do. Yeah.

Brenda:

Love that. I think also a, another how on applying the lip clip is just be aware, we all know those people that sort of trigger us, that get us agitated, that we have a lot of friction with. And just know that just like have the lip clip stuck on your purse strap or something, just bring it with you. Right. Because you know, there are certain people, certain situations, certain topics usually like politics and religion and sex. Yeah. And I don't know, there's all certain, certain ones that are just gonna. Trigger you. That's a good time. Just know you're gonna need it. Plan ahead. Bring two if you need in case you drop one or you can give one to a friend. That always is nice also.

Cathy:

Right? Or you could send this

Brenda:

episode to, to the person who triggers you and say, Hey,

Cathy:

exactly. I was thinking

Brenda:

about you today.

Cathy:

Yeah, for sure. I even, you know, I, I bring along my little partner, my husband, and you know, if we're driving to go out to meet folks for dinner or whatever, we always say, okay, if this topic comes up,

Brenda:

yes.

Cathy:

This is, this is how I'm planning on responding. What do you think? You know, we kind of, we kind of powwow before we do a little quarterbacking before we go out. Love that. And I tell you, it's so awesome because, you know, especially in today's, you know, climate lots, there's lots to talk about. There's lots to talk about. And some people are very passionate. Yes. I love, I love that people are passionate about things. Yes. I mean, really that's the coolest thing. But there are some things that we just don't wanna be dragged into. And so we just sit there and we listen and then a lot of times we know there's, tell us about that. You know, we changed the situation, so,

Brenda:

yeah.

Cathy:

Yeah. It's, the lip clip is great for situations like that.

Brenda:

For sure. I like the quarterbacking. That's a really good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it is true. There's a lot to talk about and yeah, a lot of it just doesn't need to be talked about, but

Cathy:

No. Yeah. But that works with your kids too, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, I know that, uh, my husband and I, you know, we did a lot of that with our kids. You know, Hey, our daughter's gonna call, she's gonna ask for this, you know. How do we wanna respond? And so we would do that. And so have those conversations. Practice the dialogue if you have to. Yes. I'm a huge believer in kind of doing a little script before. Yes. And you know, look, if you trust that person, by the way, if you're a stream mom and you wanna do that with anybody please reach out to other members in this stream. Yeah. Because I think it's really nice to have a little. Session where you can just kind of say, well, what if she says this? How do I respond? Or, you know? Totally. Yeah.

Brenda:

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Have a little practice pod. Like little practice. Yeah, yeah. Practice pod. I love that. Yeah. You can just DM people within the community and say like, Hey, you wanna be at my practice pod? And yeah, maybe for like 20 minutes, once a week, you just run through surf and information sandwich and mm-hmm. You know, all the things, all the things. I used to always think that I had to respond immediately when something happened. Mm-hmm. You know, my son would come home, intoxicated, belligerent, that's all. We would just get in these huge fights. Now I know. That red, that's a red light moment.

Cathy:

A red light moment. If you dunno

Brenda:

what we're talking about, join us in the stream and you'll learn what the red light moments are. And it's a red light moment first of all. Second of all, there is no expiration date on like how, when you need to respond, so that's right, no matter what a, you know, application of the lip clip and then a purposeful, intentional response that comes later. Is always going to trump a quick emotional on the spot response that is probably gonna do more damage than good. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. It feels a little weird to not respond right away because we're used to just like going into problem solving mode and that's when you can just say to yourself, to your kiddo, to your partner, this is just not the time. We're just not gonna have a productive conversation right now. Everybody back off. Walk around the block, drink your water, take your deep breaths, listen to meditation, punch a punching bag, whatever you gotta do, that is gonna be the better time. Just hands down, I've never heard anybody say that. A highly emotional, you know, instant reaction went well and solved all the problems.

Cathy:

Oh, agree. Agree. And you know, uh. I'm a big be believer. And when you say that too, it doesn't even have to be that day. Right. Like, I know we've said to our kids, we need a couple days, we'll get back to you. Because we all know our kids also may be like, I need a decision now. Right. I want you. Well, that's, that's just part of manipulation too, and, and recognizing that. And it's perfectly fine to say, I'm not ready to give you, you know? Yeah. My feedback now.

Brenda:

It really helps you think about what is my intent with this response and intent is so important because often our intent is I just wanna gather a bunch of ammunition. Were you drinking? Mm-hmm. Where did you go? Who were you with? How could you do that? Oh, yeah. Why did you do that? I mean, those are the, those are not the kinds of questions that we're saying to ask after you take off your lip clip. Those are the kinds of questions that are just feeding your own desire for ammunition. They're not gonna move the conversation forward in a positive way. They're not gonna move everybody closer to collaboration. It's just fuel for the fire. So really getting clear on what is my intent with this question or with this statement. Am I just trying to get my opinion in there?'cause I wanna be right, right. I wanna be the one who's right. Oh yeah. I know the best way to solve this. I know what's right for you. You probably don't, you know? Yeah. As much as we want to say that we do, we probably don't.

Cathy:

We probably don't. No, we probably don't. And so I agree. I I love, I love all of that. That's so true. Uh, gathering. Oh my gosh, I was so good at all these things. Yes. I feel like you're taking me down memory lane brand. This is like,

Brenda:

I know. Well, it's important to remember because when you're in the thick of it, we have the beautiful perspective now that we are living calm lives for the most part, with not a lot of drama going on. So we can say this. So also if you're like, how are they saying this? It's because we are in a calm place, which is why we want to share these things with you, because we didn't have anybody to, to share these things with us when we were in the thick of it. We were just out there flailing. Being crazy people gathering ammunition, firing off emotional responses, saying things that we didn't mean, like, you're never gonna be my son again. You're never welcome home. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I remember getting home that night after the McDonald's incident and telling my husband, I only have one son now. Oh,

Cathy:

I'm so hard. And I was just Sorry. That's so, so hard. I was, and sobbing. And

Brenda:

sobbing and sobbing and I really meant it, like, I really felt like I only like I had lost him. Yeah. And it was so sad and I so regretted saying the things that I had said to my son at that McDonald's and I actually had to go to EMDR for that one. There were some other stuff that happened at that, on that same incident, but. It was really traumatic and I so wished I could have taken all of that back, and if I would've just known, recognized, I'm horribly triggered. Yeah, I'm sweating, I'm shaking. I can't even swallow. You know, my chest is bursting. This is not a good time to do anything other than just drive away. Sit and calm down and breathe, call somebody. But I didn't know that. So that's why we shared these episodes because you, you can handle this better than we did, which is, the good news is you can handle this so much better. It takes practice, it takes, uh, a drop of the ego, which a lot of the time. You know, Kathy and I have these conversations and we're like, what do you think it is? What do you think it is that is really holding a lot of these parents back? And a lot of the time we come back to ego. Yeah, because it's hard. Yeah. To let that go when you probably are right. You probably do have the right answer. You probably do know what's best for them right now, and none of it's gonna be accepted by them in this moment.

Cathy:

In this moment. Right? And that's just it. And it's, and and truly I think that's the tough thing. And to have, just take that deep breath, like you said, drive away, you know, and truly in the end when it all matters, it won't matter who is right or wrong or, or what you were doing or, you know, the, the. The resolution to the problem. It doesn't matter who came up with it or when or how. No, ultimately none of that matters. But we do see you right now and understand that this is a really, really tough situation. So, anyway, another shout out to please, you know, if you feel like you need extra, extra support to please reach out to a therapist.'cause that's something that is also gonna help. But anyway,

Brenda:

yeah.

Cathy:

Yeah.

Brenda:

It's, it's very true. And, and this is not even just helpful if your kiddo's struggling, like if they're new in recovery

Cathy:

mm-hmm. Right?

Brenda:

They're coming out of treatment, they're, maybe they just got into a sober living, you want to, because now they're sober. You can say so many things, right? Like, okay, they have a clear mind. I can give them all of this information. No, don't, don't, don't, don't do that. Just, you know, in the right moment, at the right time, if they ask, or if you've used open-ended questions and then you wanna use the information sandwich, but it, this is, this lip clip is really. You know, valuable at all stages of the journey.

Cathy:

I agree. And almost

Brenda:

maybe even more so when they're in recovery.

Cathy:

Okay. I was just gonna say, can I say something that I feel that the lip clip is even more important when they're in early recovery and in recovery? Yeah, because. You know, first of all, they're clear-minded for the most part, and they are, I mean, look at this beautiful gift that they've been given. They've given a, a chance to look at their life in a totally new way, and they're like a baby again. They're figuring out how to do things in this new life. How to go out, how to be with friends in a social situation. Right? Yeah. And you know, as parents, that scares the heck out of us. You know, I think I shared, maybe I didn't share that my daughter loves music festivals, absolutely loves them. And she's in recovery and she went to a music festival this year and you know, I was thinking, oh my gosh, this, you're like, oh boy thing. And let me tell you, the lip clip came out. Strong in that conversation with her. And you know what? I didn't even have to say anything she offered before I even said anything. Oh, by the way, I joined a Facebook group that is a, you know, basically for people in recovery that are going to this concert. And I found out all the resources that are gonna be at this five day concert. And I was thinking. Dang. I didn't even say anything. And she figured that out and she shared and she almost knew that that was what I was gonna ask. You know? So of

Brenda:

course she did.

Cathy:

You know? Of course she did. So, you know. But yes, I really feel, especially when they're in recovery, we really, how are they going to learn all these new tools? You gotta, you know. We're not holding their hands as they walk right now. They're learning to walk on their own. We gotta let 'em walk on their own. And you, you know, not to say, you can't say, Hey, I'm here if you need anything. Right. Extra support for this or that you just let me know when is a good time.

Brenda:

Yes. You know, and, and yes.

Cathy:

Right.

Brenda:

That is such a perfect story of the proper lip clip application. And I was just thinking as you were saying that, that. Again, 'cause we don't wanna say that we are not valuable and that we are not influential and that we don't have good information. We usually do. And I was just thinking if I had to pair the lip clip with some other tool, I would pair it perfectly with the information sandwich because if you apply lip clip, you give it a minute, you think it through and there and there's something going on. That's when if you're calm, you're cool, you're collected, you could say. Hey, what do you know about X, Y, Z? Right? That's the top of the information sandwich. Mm-hmm. What do you know, like, first of all, is this a good time? Like, but sometimes you're in a conversation. Yeah. So, you know, like you're there. Yeah. Yeah. So you could say, Hey, can we just take one second? Do you have a second? I just wanted to ask you something.

Cathy:

Well, yeah.

Brenda:

Okay.'cause that's polite and respectful. What do you know about, like, let's use your example. If you were, if she, if she had not offered the information, you could have said, right. Right. Like, what do you know about festival? Like does this festival have uh, any kind of, you know, sober club or whatever? I don't know what they call it. Meetings at the club? Yeah, it's at

Cathy:

this event. Are they, is there any place for those people in recovery to. Gather.

Brenda:

Yes, exactly. And that probably would've kind of come out better if we'd practiced it, but

Cathy:

it would've been, but yes,

Brenda:

you would have asked, what does she know first? Because our kids are brilliant. They know a lot. They probably have it all like chat GT and. You know, in a book already. So what do you know about what's going on at this festival when it comes to like people who are in recovery? Yeah. And she might have said, oh yeah, there's this and there's this, and there's this and there's this. And then that's how the information sandwich works.'cause you're like, oh good. She already knows. Now if she had said, oh, I don't know. I have no idea. What are you talking like Maybe there's, I don't know. Then you could have said, oh, I was actually, I saw this thing the other day that at, you know, Coachella, they have a like sober tent. I don't know what they are, but I know that they do have them. They do, yeah. They do have tents. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a sober tent, you know, what would you think about checking that out? So I think the lip clip, once you apply it and you, you gather yourself, really does pair well nicely with the information sandwich because it gives you that opportunity then to, if, if you do have information that's helpful to give it. Again, we're not saying we don't wanna give information, we do, but we wanna give it in a way that is sets you up best to not get it smashed back in your face. Right. Which is probably what's gonna happen if you just. Flat out give advice. So anyway. Absolutely. I just thought of that off the cuff.

Cathy:

That was, that was really great. You did a nice pairing right there. Yes. Thank you.

Brenda:

I just come to me for any of your invitation to change pairing needs. I will set you up. All You're the

Cathy:

sommelier I, I'm the

Brenda:

ITC sommelier. Yeah,

Cathy:

exactly.

Brenda:

Alright, well that's what we wanted to share today. We hope you feel empowered with your new lip clip. Yeah, we, we've thought about getting some made. If we do, we will, we will sell them on our website or something. I don't know. Oh my gosh. I think that would be so great. I mean, just

Cathy:

to have something right. A little tiny. Yeah. Little clip, make a little clothes pin or something. Just, yeah, everyone needs a little reminder, but extra strength. Extra strength. All right. We'll see you back next time. Nice chatting right now. Talk to you later. Bye bye.

Brenda:

Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related. We even have a start here playlist that we created. So if you're new here, be sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use. We have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol. It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent. It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right back here next week.

People on this episode

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Brenda Zane

Host
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Cathy Cioth

Guest