Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction

Sending Your Struggling Kid Off To College?, with Cathy Cioth

• Brenda Zane, Cathy Cioth • Season 6 • Episode 287

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

It’s the season parents often dream of - their high school senior has successfully walked the stage and they’re now packing the family car to make the ceremonial drive to the four-year university their family goes to. They’ll do Parent Weekend, buy the sweatshirt and bumper sticker and wave their child off until they see them at Thanksgiving.

But it doesn’t go like that for everyone, and it sometimes feels like a facade if your child is on their way to a four-year university when they may be better suited for a community college - or a treatment program.

Cathy and I sat down to talk about this very difficult transition period for parents - discussing various reasons why parents hesitate to change plans last minute when their budding college student shows signs they may be headed in the wrong direction, the pressure parents are under at this time, and of course, our personal experience and insights. We also share what parents can be looking for in the senior year of high school and the summer before beginning college, as well as options there are for kids in this tricky season.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram here
Find us on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

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Cathy:

Having the experiences that we have now with our kids, these healthy, healthy, vibrant relationships. I mean, oh my gosh,

Brenda:

yeah.

Cathy:

I'll take it any day over a a hundred percent cotton university of wherever sweatshirt. Exactly. I don't

Brenda:

care, by the way, just pro tip. You can just go buy the sweatshirt. You don't even have to have a kid that goes there. Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly. Find real hope in what might feel helpless. You are not helpless and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources@hostingcommunity.org. Hello, miss Kathy. Welcome back to the show. Hi Brenda.

Cathy:

It feels like forever since I've seen you. I know. Because we don't work in the same town as we know.

Brenda:

I know. Maybe our

Cathy:

listeners don't know, but,

Brenda:

and you are on, you're celebrating your 35th wedding anniversary, which I am just like mad props to you guys for that, especially. Thank you. Having two kids that went through it in air quotes, which we don't need to til. Anybody what that means, because they know. No kidding,

Cathy:

right?

Brenda:

But to have your marriage survive, two kids going through this, I think it is worthwhile of just giving you a high five on that because

Cathy:

Oh,

Brenda:

oof. I mean, yeah. Yeah. 35 years. That's amazing.

Cathy:

No kidding. It, it was, we had a great time and we actually went with some really good friends who are also celebrating their 35th wedding anniversary, and they've been through it too. Mm-hmm. They've been, they've had Simone, they're different struggles. Yeah. But anyway, we, we. Every single night at dinner, we were saying how grateful we were for, you know, yeah. Where we were. And gosh, it doesn't take much to end marriage these days, so, no, it doesn't, anyway.

Brenda:

It doesn't, it's been

Cathy:

great and thriving. I think I, I got a great guy, so I'm really happy about that.

Brenda:

You gotta her so I approve.

Cathy:

Yeah.

Brenda:

I

Cathy:

approve. Oh, thanks. Yeah.

Brenda:

I didn't know you when you guys were dating, but I would've approved at the time

Cathy:

if you knew him. You might've said, oh, maybe that's where this whole this thing comes from.

Brenda:

Well, here we are both in our little summer attire. It is warm. I was telling you this weekend, I got out on my paddle board, which if you think about it too much like. I gotta go down to the garage and then I gotta pull the car out to get the paddleboard out, and then I gotta blow it up and then I gotta get, you know, like it can, you can get deterred from doing the things that you really wanna do. But anyway, we did it. My husband got a kayak, which we laugh about because first we were at a garage sale and he. He loves garage sales. I hate garage sales, but we always have to stop at a garage sales, so we stop. And there were these two little foam things that sit on top of your car to hold like a boat. So he buys these things for like 25 cents. And I said, well, what are you getting those for? And he goes, oh, for a kayak. I'm like, but we don't have a kayak.

Cathy:

Oh gosh, I, so we got a

Brenda:

kayak because we got the foam holders. Of course that hold the kayak. Oh my gosh. So anyway, he went in the kayak, I went on the paddle board. It was like 83 degrees in Seattle, which is

Cathy:

Wow. Just

Brenda:

amazing. And then last night, and this kind of goes into our topic today, I promise you. Yeah. This is not a hundred percent off topic, but we had dinner last night with some old neighbors and one of our stream moms was there. Whose son was friends with my son back starting in like second grade. You know, they have the kids in the neighborhood mm-hmm. That they grew up with forever. Mm-hmm. So they're like brothers. He also struggled, but she did not find this out until he went to college, which is Oh. Which is what we're talking about today. Yeah. And so it was, it was nice to catch up with her. He is two years. Clean and sober off fentanyl.

Cathy:

Wow. Which is a, if anybody

Brenda:

out there is listening that has a kid addicted to Fentanyl, you know what a huge success that is. So he is doing that two years, he's on Suboxone and he's gone off at several times in relapsed each time, and so,

Cathy:

mm-hmm.

Brenda:

You know, I think there can be a lot of stigma around that. Oh, well, you know, yeah. You're just trading one drug for another. It's like it's keeping this kid alive. And when I say kid, he's 28, but you know what I mean?

Cathy:

He's our kid. He's our

Brenda:

kid, you know, he's someone's kid and he's got a, you know, he's gonna propose in the next couple of months. Aw. And he has such a huge, bright future ahead of him and he's That's right. Doing amazing. And so, yeah, I just think it's important to say like if your kid's using Vivitrol or Suboxone and it's keeping them sober and living a great life. Stay on it. I mean,

Cathy:

absolutely don't

Brenda:

go off of it from a stigma standpoint. Now, I know sometimes people physically don't feel great and they transition and you can transition off Suboxone. It might not be easy, but you can do it medically. But it was wonderful to see her and to see some other friends, a friend who unfortunately lost their son when our kids were all in high school to suicide. And to see how they're doing now. Yeah. So, you know, everybody's got something. Wow.

Cathy:

Oh, everyone has something for sure. So if you're sitting

Brenda:

there at the barbecue thinking, looking around going, oh my gosh. Like all these people, they have it together. No, they don't. Mm-hmm. Nope. They absolutely don't. It's

Cathy:

really, really true. It's such a good reminder, you know, and, you know, our kids struggle. We struggle and you know, and just, yeah. You know, if, if you find, you know, you're struggling is keeping you isolated, oh gosh, please, please try to get some help. Yeah. Because, you know, isolation is not good either. You know, and we understand the whole stigma thing and, and you know, it's okay if you wanna stay home from a. An event or a two, but if you find that you're doing that on a consistent basis,

Brenda:

yeah, please get some help. Yes. Come join us. Yeah. I mean, you'd be around a couple hundred moms who like you can't say anything that's gonna shock them.

Cathy:

You really can't. We're unshockable

Brenda:

at this point. I, I feel like you really can't

Cathy:

say anything.

Brenda:

No. So yeah, you don't have to worry about that. But we did wanna have this conversation on the podcast because Kathy and I end up having a lot of conversations and we're halfway through and we're like, ah, we should be recording this. So we, because it is August of 2025, if you're listening in real time, a lot of parents in our community are getting ready to send their kids off to college.

Cathy:

That's right.

Brenda:

And it comes, oh boy. With so much around that right now, I did not have this experience, so I'm really gonna lean into you for this one because my kiddo didn't make it past the sophomore year in high school. So we're not, I don't, I do not have lived experience in this area, but I see a lot of our moms right now are really struggling with their kids. And this wrestling with, do we send them to college or not? Or I just, I'm counting down the minutes until they leave. Yeah. So we're here to hash all that out and we do not have the answer, just spoiler alert,

Cathy:

we don't have the answer, but we hope we can make it easier and it, you know, there's no. Right. Like going off, you know, maybe that's what has to happen. I and I will share with us. That's something that had to happen. Yeah. So but anyway. Yeah, I have experience in this. We have a, both of our kids, you know although one didn't really boomerang per se, it was just, I don't know what you call it. There was a little respite, but yeah, let's get into this.'cause I think it's gonna be a really. I think it's gonna be pertinent to a lot of folks.

Brenda:

Right. You

Cathy:

know,

Brenda:

and it may not even be a college decision that you're trying to make right now. Right. But some other decision. Mm-hmm. But I'll just, I'll, I'll kind of just do a quick summary of what we see our moms in the stream going through, which is the kids are often struggling through high school and they're in their senior year. And there's a great desire by the parents and society at large to get this kid into college, and we could do a whole nother episode about that. But there's a lot of expectations that come with having your child go off to college. So they get across the graduation line. And many times, and I, I say this with all the love and respect and because I see our mom say it, I got, my son graduated from high school, I should get the diploma because I am actually the one who got them graduated, but we just wanted to get them across. The line, did you do that? Like what was that experience for you?

Cathy:

Oh yeah. Oh, I mean, and I remember talking to Dina Canero, who you know many of you know, she's been on our podcast, she's amazing parent coach, and does our facilitating for all our workshops or helps us facilitate those and so. I remember talking to her, she's a friend and saying, I just need him to walk down the darn aisle, you know, and get that diploma, because she had that issue with her son, right? Mm-hmm. And, and how it happened. And so, yeah, I remember sitting. At his graduation, and it was a, it was a lovely day. I, I won't lie. I mean, it was because our son was a little different. He was definitely struggling, but not to the extent that we knew he was Right. So we were a little in the dark and yes, I was sitting there thinking, oh. We did it. Not he did it. We did. We did it. Yes. I even said to my husband,

Brenda:

oh my

Cathy:

gosh, we did it. We did it. You got your

Brenda:

second high school diploma.

Cathy:

I did. Yeah.

Brenda:

But it's, it's common. And I'm, and listen, there is nothing wrong with that. I mean,

Cathy:

yeah.

Brenda:

You know, that is a major marker. I think most everybody would like their child to have at least a high school diploma or a GED, either one. Mm-hmm. Because honestly, does anyone ever go back? Has anyone asked you, Kathy, did you get a high school diploma? Of course they don't. Never. Never, never, never. So whether they get a GED or like my son got his high school diploma in treatment. Doing these little packets that he wrote every week. Anyway, they get across the line, but by this time everybody is for fried. Like mom is fried. Yeah, dad is fried. If there's a dad, single mom is fried, single dad is fried. Like everybody is just, we did it and there's so much drama and everybody is just like, okay. Big accomplishment and, and that makes a ton of sense because we know all the struggles that they go through, and then there's the time between, okay, maybe they graduated at the end of May and college doesn't start until, mm-hmm. Let's say August or September. And in between in those months, a lot can go wrong. Oh, and a lot could go right, A lot can go right, but we typically see a lot going wrong. So. That is a rough period because as parents, what we see is you've made an investment in tuition, you have made an investment in housing. Maybe there's mm-hmm. A sorority or a fraternity that your child needs to go to because everybody in the family goes to the, belongs to this. Right, exactly. Right. Lot. I mean, there's a lot of pressure, a lot. It's legit. There is a lot of pressure and, you know. Parents are like, okay, it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. They're gonna go, they're gonna go. And I think there's a, a hope that things are going to either self-correct or, you know, I don't know. I think there's some magical thinking that goes on.

Cathy:

My parents saw four kids graduate from high school and go to college and whether, you know, I have three brothers. So there was a little bit of cray cray. You know, as far as, you know, what. The boys were doing, you know, they tended to really celebrate Yes. More than I did. Right. In terms of partying and everything. But yeah, there was always that feeling like, well, once they go to college, they kind of, even out, they have to, they naturally have to take more responsibility. Right. And I think really that's what parents, even today, that's what we were thinking. Mm-hmm. Is that, look, once he's out of our house. I'm not gonna be, you know, making sure he gets to school on time. I'm not gonna be, did you, you know, clean up your bathroom or do your laundry? He's gonna be sitting in all of that, so he's gonna have to do it was our thought. Right. So I think that, you know, yeah, I, things might even out once he gets to college, right? He's gonna learn a little bit and grow up. Which is really what college was about way back when. Right? Yeah,

Brenda:

for sure. Yeah, and I think that does sometimes happen. Mm-hmm. I will say for somebody who is really misusing substances and struggling, the chances of that happening is less likely. I won't say that. It never happens. But I do think, given the potency of the substances today, so we are talking 80, 90, a hundred percent THC, fentanyl, right. You know, all of the stimulants and it's stacked against them. Let's just put it that way. Like it, these substances are no joke. And so I think where kids used to be able to go off to college and party a little bit, you know, and they're drinking beer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're really not just these kids, our kids, I'm not talking all kids. Mm-hmm. They're just not going off and drinking a few beers.

Cathy:

I know that I went to college and I could drink whenever I wanted. Yeah. There was no one telling me, you know, come home, drive home, do any of that. And you know, I, I didn't have my mom and dad to answer to. Right. It was me. Right. So when, you know, I know when our kids are going now. You're right. It's not just the beer, it's, I was shocked, frankly. And this is, you know, my son's been sober nine years. But when he was in school, it wasn't beer, it was handles hard alcohol. Yes. And my son even, and I will not say the name of the college, 'cause truly, I think all colleges are really, doesn't matter. Pretty equal in this. Yeah. But he had, he self-reported that there was way more drugs that he had ever seen in his college. Mm-hmm. And the variety. And so those are what's showing up at parties. So yes, if there is a little bit of a substance problem, maybe it's not too severe. In our situation, it was a situation where it got far worse. You know, when, when college came upon us and everything else. It's hard to, it's hard to say no, you're trying to fit in, you know, there might be mental health issues where you're feeling like, you know, just all the things right. All the things that come with it.

Brenda:

Yes. Yeah. And that was the same for my friend who I saw at this barbecue this weekend where her son went off. She knew he had had a, some actual, like he's got an autoimmune disease that causes a lot of pain. And so her son was prescribed and taking opiates because of the pain of that.

Cathy:

Mm-hmm.

Brenda:

And then when he went off to college, it just skyrocketed. And when you have a gut feeling. Follow it because she had a gut feeling. He was in another state, I think it was not even a full quarter that she was like, oh yeah, something is not right. And she flew there unannounced. And showed up. Oh, wow. He was in an apartment by himself because his doctor didn't want him living in a, in a communal living situation because of his autoimmune disease. Oh, wow. Because his immune system was so low. So he is in an apartment by himself and she showed up and. It was, she sent me a video of what she found when she went in his apartment and it was literally like something out of a movie. And it was, she only found that out because of her gut intuition. Mm-hmm. So I would say, and I know a lot of our moms are like, yeah, but I don't trust my gut anymore because it, it didn't warn me about this thing or that thing, but still listen, you know, when something feels wrong. So anyway, we have this image in our mind. We're going to make the drive to the school. We're gonna go to Target, and we're going to get the cute bedding and we're gonna set up the dorm room and we're gonna go to the parent barbecue, right? And I'm gonna get the sweatshirt and the bumper sticker because that's what we have just been trained to think is gonna happen. And I was desperate for that, and that certainly never happened for us. But did you have that? Like were you thinking, oh, I really want, I want this college experience for me and for him.

Cathy:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I had a great time in college. I mean, it's where I met my husband. Yeah. Where I met my dearest, dearest friends and you know, it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. So yes, I wanted that for sure. I did buy the college sweatshirt, you know, we went out to orientation together, my son and I, and you know, because now orientation is before you start college, right? So, you know, we went out Midsummer, he did his thing. I kind of, they did a whole thing for parents and it all looked so great and he was fired up. He was really excited about it. So that was great. And we flew out there, we set up the bed, we got all excited. But can I share that? Probably two weeks before he left, he said, I don't think I wanna go. And I said, my, my husband and I have said, okay, what, what's going on? And, and we just. You know, really notched it up to college jitters. You know, like, you're gonna be fine once, well, he knew, I mean, talk about trusting your gut. I think my son knew this is not a good situation for me. Things could get really outta control. And they did. Yeah. But you know, I also so wanted this for him. Yes. So, and my husband did too. And like we talked about earlier, we really needed the break. Yes.'Cause it was just a lot at the time. Yep. So, and I remember when my husband was hugging him goodbye and he said, I hope we don't see you till Thanksgiving. Like, can I, you know, in other words, let's make this in. Not in a mean way, you know. No, of course not. And then, you know, my son says, don't worry dad. You know, and we didn't make it that far, but that's okay. You know, it happened the way it's supposed to happen.

Brenda:

Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life changing for so many women who started right where you might be. By listening to the show, if you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through, there is a place designed specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers, for parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential. It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background. Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward. Right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery. You'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices because we know you wanna see positive change in your family. Check it out@hopestreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay, back to the show. And I think what you said about needing a break is really true. Yeah. Because I think sometimes there's a, a gut feeling on the parent's side of like, Hmm, yeah, this might not be the best idea. However, I need a break. Right. I need to Right. Sleep. I need to reconnect with my other kids who I haven't spent a lot of time with and with my spouse or with my friends. Yeah. And so it makes complete sense why we might send them off. Mm-hmm. When we kind of internally know that I. May not be the best idea, but then I think what happens and, and I want to hear how this happened for you.'cause I don't even actually know. Mm-hmm. Which is surprising. All the conversations that we've had

Cathy:

with all the conversations is

Brenda:

that something happens, right? There's some sort of a crisis. Yeah. That happens and all of a sudden. You are looped right back into it, usually with higher stakes and more extreme circumstances. But what ha how did, how did things go down with you guys?

Cathy:

Ours was not just one crisis situation. So he had called a few times and just said, you know, yeah, I'm doing okay. I am kind of struggling a little bit and so well how, how much, you know, we kind of would direct him to, you know, resources that were there. He was posting on social media that he was dropping classes and we didn't know about it. You know, we would hear, hear from others and but he would always kind of recover, you know? And so we thought, well, it's okay. And then we went out for parent weekend. And boy, I mean, he just didn't look like our healthy son, you know, our son, you know, and when he was in high school, he struggled, but he, I've shown you that picture. Yeah. He does not look like a kid that struggled. No, he did not. He was struggling, you know? It's kinda like when you're tall you can hide your weight gain. Yes. He could hide it. He hid it well, anyway, he Hi it. Well, so, but that was, he, he did not look well, he looked bloated and I could tell he was drinking a lot and he just, it wasn't, it was an okay weekend. Of course, here we are on a weekend where parents are now really imbibing with their kids. Yeah. And it's a big thing. Yeah. But my husband and I left that weekend and that was in October, feeling like, oh, this doesn't feel right, but let's just, we were literally just kind of waiting, you know? And so, and then. I would say mid-November, just after his birthday, he, he, the calls became more frequent. I need to get outta here. I need to get outta here. He would never say why? He just says, I need to get outta here. I don't, this isn't working for me. He had already dropped several classes, and so at that point, we said, okay, you know, and, and our gut said, go pick him up. So I did. I flew, flew in. It was in Arizona. I flew in, rented a car, and. Whew. I mean, I'm waiting in the parking lot for him. He is like clearing out his dorm room and there were cops showing up and he kept saying, there are police raiding our dorms all the time looking for drugs. I'm thinking, what is he talking about? And when I was there I saw it and I couldn't believe it. Wow. So it was quite a party atmosphere back then. So anyway, we drove home and I knew it was the right thing to bring him home. But then I thought, oh geez, what's home gonna look like?

Brenda:

Right? I was like, how did I, I don't know that I would've felt that way, but I guess better, better home than there.

Cathy:

I think it was better home. He was very alarmed. You know, his calls were very, you know he was struggling a lot. Yeah. And so for sure we knew home was better and, you know, we did. Okay. All right. You're coming home. Do you think you could do school? And he said, yeah, I just need to be in the community college. Okay, great. So I think he signed up for a couple classes, didn't do those at all. And he got a job that didn't work. Got another job that, I mean, it was like he, he just kept failing. Yeah. Once he got home, and yeah, it was kind of strange, you know, because it was one of those things where I was watching in real time, you know, kind of this, wow, these expectations that we had sending our first off to college and, oh, and by the way, this is something that. Maybe our moms, I think the moms in the stream know about this. We would have these gatherings that the moms in, the groups that I was hanging around where we would make college care packages. So you'd go to someone's house, everyone would bring goodies, and we'd pack up a bunch of care packages and send 'em off. And I did that for the first, you know, several weeks. Yeah. And then when he came home. You know, they would invite me and I just thought, oh gosh, no, I'm not going. Obviously I don't have a kid there. Right. But it just made me feel so bad, you know? And, and I couldn't even tell everybody and you know, yeah. I mean, it's just now I think back and I think that was so silly, but it was really hard at the time. So, no, it's super hard. It only feels silly now because it's been so long ago. It's not silly at all. It was a really hard time.

Brenda:

That is really hard time. So hard because you don't Yeah. As much as you might, even if they're good friends, you might wanna tell them, but then you also feel like, well I shouldn't say anything 'cause it's his. Thing, like you don't wanna reveal something about them that to pe you know, it's just, it gets really complicated. So I feel for you on that it does that. That had to have been so difficult.

Cathy:

Yeah, it was difficult. And then, you know, and also seeing him in real time, how much he was really struggling and at that point, substances became pretty. Pretty prevalent and we saw something, you know, we saw more of what was going on and we thought, oh my gosh, you know, how do we help? How do we help him? How do we help ourselves? We, we didn't really know what to do. I would say that time that he came home in November to when he went, you know, to finally get some help was in June.

Brenda:

Oh, wow. It was a

Cathy:

long, oh, it was a long time time. I didn't realize it was that

Brenda:

long.

Cathy:

It was that long. And you know, our daughter was definitely struggling. Right. And so now we had two, right? Very much struggling under our house. I would say that was out of, out of this whole time. I mean, you know, I would say those nine, eight months or however long it was, eight months were probably the hardest eight months because we had two kids in the house. Both were really struggling. Both weren't good for each other because I think, you know, there was use going on with the, it was just

Brenda:

none of it's good.

Cathy:

It was not, not fun.

Brenda:

Not fun, not fun would sum that up for sure. Yeah.

Cathy:

Yeah. Right.

Brenda:

Yeah, and, and there's, as you're trying to make that decision, I'm sure you're also thinking about. Well, what do we tell the family? Like all of a sudden, why is he not at college? Like, what's wrong? And it gets, you know, it just, there's so many layers to this, I think that there Yeah. That often people don't think about. So all of those really come into account when you're trying to make decisions. Especially if you're in a crisis situation. You know, if you get the call from school that something has happened or the police in that city mm-hmm. Then you're stuck with mm-hmm. Okay, well now they're in another city, in a state. I don't know any, I don't have resources there. Do we bring 'em home? Do we try to get 'em into a treatment program? What kind of treatment program do they need? Is this a mental health thing? Is it a substance use thing? Like, right. So many questions. Right, right. Yeah. So

Cathy:

many questions and there are resources at colleges. I will say that, you know, I mean. Again, now we know there are recovery campuses. Yeah, there are. You know, or if there, if it isn't a full on recovery campus, they definitely have. Recovery resources, right? Yeah. So these are actually, for those that don't know, these are clubs that, you know, have a sober lifestyle or whatever that is, and they help kids like that. They're, you know, they're their peers that are there to help them. There's, you know, crisis units in colleges and, you know, this is all post COVID. A lot of this came about too. Mm-hmm. Which is phenomenal. I love, love, love that colleges and universities offer this. So. There are crisis centers for these kids to get help. I wish I had known all that before, right? Because when you are in it and you send, if you are in that situation where you're sending off your kid right now, please go to the university. Reach out to them. You know, what do I do? Just tell 'em you're one of those moms that I don't even wanna call you a crazy mom because you're not, you're proactive, not a crazy mom. You're proactive. You are absolutely proactive and, you know just like your friend's, you know, son had a serious autoimmune issue and she took. She took a lot of care. Yeah. Finding him a place to live. So find out what those crisis units are, what your rights are as parents. That's the other thing, right? Yes. As you and I know. Yes. It's so important to maybe get legal documents, you know? Ready? Yeah. We did that very post all of this, but we did it.

Brenda:

I'm glad you brought up the legal document thing, because I think it's something that most. Parents don't think about. I certainly never did until after my son's second overdose, when the nurses couldn't gimme any information. If you're sending them off to college, get them to sign a medical waiver so that you can get medical information. If they go off to college and they're 18 and they're in a car accident. And they're in the hospital and you call and try to get information, they will not give it to you because they're an adult. So get medical waiver, I would get, or like medical power of attorney, I guess it's called.

Cathy:

Mm-hmm.

Brenda:

At a minimum get that, but then there's also just talk, you know, it's different state by state, but like talk to your family attorney to find out what do I need? Just so that if something does go wrong, 'cause if you get this in place, probably nothing's gonna go wrong. That's how the world works, right? Yeah, exactly right. You won't need it, but if you do need it, you absolutely wanna have it ready so that you're not like me standing in a hospital. Having everybody look at me like, oh, I really wish I could tell you what was going on, but I can't 'cause your kid's 19. So. Right. That is really important. Yes. And I love your idea about like, just call ahead of time, know what's available. Know if they, if there's a crisis intervention team there, 'cause you, why not? Right. Why not be prepared?

Cathy:

Sure. It can't hurt. And you know, and one thing we did say to both of our kids when they were going to college was. You can always call us. We're here for you. Yeah. Right. And so we didn't want them to feel like they were gonna be all alone there, and we weren't gonna help or support them in that system. And, and so, and they did. Right. And especially our son. I, I still give 'em a lot of props for calling. I know those, yeah. Those were probably some really hard calls to make. And, you know, and that also adds to the whole layer of. You know, their mental health is that they feel so bad 'cause it's yet something else that they felt like they couldn't be successful at. Mm-hmm. And you know, and what we have always said too is that college doesn't have to happen in between the ages of 18 and 22 folks. Nope. Let's, let's normalize that. Yes, by the way, because. I think that is something that we as parents feel that it has to happen, number one. Number two, it has to happen between 18 and 22. Right?

Brenda:

Which, how ridiculous is that? Like

Cathy:

it's so ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. And realizing that let's, gosh, I mean, gosh, this could be a whole other podcast. Let's normalize going to trade schools and all these other wonderful options too. You know, a college education. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I think that would help parents a lot too, is to know that. I mean, I've got, our daughter right now is working on her BA and she's 26. Yeah. You know, and I think that's great. There was no, you know, if she wanted, I have a nephew that's going to law school, it just starting, and he is 32. I It's fabulous. You know? Yeah. And so, and that was his choice, right? These are all choices of our kids. Right? Yes. I think it, it has to be their choice too. Yeah.

Brenda:

And like your son didn't end up going to college and he's an entrepreneur. He is. Got his own successful business. Yeah. My youngest didn't go to college. He is an entrepreneur and has a hugely successful business. Enzo, my son who got me into this, just, he's 28 and just starting a master's program. Yeah. So there you go. Right. There

Cathy:

you go. Right. I mean, that's just it. There are so many paths to success. It doesn't have to happen when they're, I mean, now I look at kids too, by the way. 22 is really young. Yes. And I think that, you know, it's, especially kids seem younger these days that I think it's almost. Better when they wait a little bit. They kind of know what they really wanna do and for sure. I know it's, it's really funny. My, my son works in the car industry and he's always loved, loved cars and you know, he is also a great businessman too. Yeah. So he's kind of been able to put the two together and our daughter realized, gosh, I wanna be a psychologist. So. You know, things that I don't think that she would've wanted to do when she was 22 necessarily. Right, right. You know,

Brenda:

so, yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's wise and also I think in the next 10 years with ai, everything about college is gonna change. I think, you know, I look at those first two years, my son went to community college for his AA. Yeah. And you know, it's just those basic, like all those basic requirements mm-hmm. With ai, I don't know, I just, I'm so curious. I'm not an expert at all in this, but I'm curious to think about what is gonna happen, like kids don't necessarily need. Like at this barbecue, I'm at two of the kids of these parents just graduated. They can't get a job to save their life. I know, I know. It's so hard right now. Mm-hmm. So anyway, that's, that is a different show. But what we wanted to also then transition into is. You know, what are some of these alternatives to the boomerang situation where they, they go off to college and they boomerang back for whatever reason, but mainly for our kiddos and people listening to this substance use. And I think you have to really pay attention, very close attention in that senior year. Yeah. How are they doing? Mm-hmm. Are they moving toward independence? Are they moving toward more responsibility? Are they starting to do more things on their own? I'm gonna make my own dentist appointment. I'm gonna go get my car tabs. I'm gonna, you know, even if you're helping to pay for stuff, are they taking the initiative to make it happen? Because they're gonna have to do all of that when they go to college. Right. And versus you

Cathy:

taking that initiative to make it happen, right? Yes. It's one thing to support them financially or even come along beside them and say, how can we support you? And to ask them, is this something you really want to do? Yes. Because I think as much as parents might want their kids out of the house, do kids wanna leave the house too because they feel like they have to? Mm-hmm. That might not be the right answer. Yeah. But you know, sometimes we have to just, you know, maybe, maybe an alternative would be, we're willing to help support you in an apartment locally and you go to community college. Yes. You know, that might be, you know, something that's not as, as expensive as going to a university out of state. I was really grateful that the university that my son went to actually. Comped the, the year for Oh, you know, wow. It, it took a lot. Let me just take, well, we did pay some, but you know, we had, you had to pay in advance Yeah. For the entire semester. Yes. And I came in and I talked to them. And so that's, that's another thing. Work with the, you know, financial aid office. Mm-hmm. So the Burser's office, and ask them if they'd be willing to help you out if you end up in a situation like we did.

Brenda:

A hundred percent. Especially if it's mental health. Just utter the words. Yeah. Mental health. That's exactly right. And make sure that you fight for that, because I do know that that is a major contributing reason why parents don't back off is, yeah, we already paid for it. They gotta go. Mm-hmm. And, mm-hmm. I would say to that, prioritize your child's mental health and safety over the financial situation.'cause that can be figured out. I mean, yeah, it might not be easy, like you said, it might take a bit, but if it is a mental health and substance use reason in today's world, you may have to get an attorney involved. But I, I would almost guarantee you could get that money back. Right. If they made a different decision. Right. So very important.

Cathy:

You know, another, the other alternative by the way, versus sending them right away is having, you know, defer for a year. Mm-hmm. I mean, you know, a lot of parents say, my kid would never get into that college if we don't go now. Right, right, right. And so many, many schools will defer for a year. And you know, I know people call it the gap year, whatever it is to them, you know, and it might be that you offer to your child. Let's defer for a year. Let's have you defer. Yeah. And let's work on, you know, mental health, whatever that is. You know, so you can be more solid when you go, because really it's all about building that strong foundation so they can be successful. So I, I love the ability to be able to defer Yes. For a year. And that way you know, you're not telling your kid you can't go. You're just saying, Hey, we're just saying one year that it's gonna be, you're gonna blink and be gone. You

Brenda:

know, so. Totally. Mm-hmm. And there's so many amazing therapeutic gap year programs, so, oh yeah. Maybe they don't need that. Maybe they just need. Some community college, some time to work just so that you can observe with your own eyes, okay. Things are going in the right direction, and then they're off and running. Yeah, or all kinds of therapy.com. We love Jenny Welder or her resource. Love, love, love. If you are thinking like, hmm, maybe we need to look at some other option, you can go to all kinds of therapy.com. They ha you can sort by all kinds of different you know, filters and there are so many cool therapeutic gap years. I would actually just search for that, where they can go volunteer somewhere. They can, their surf ones and Costa Rica, I mean. I'm always like, I think I need to go on a gap year.

Cathy:

Is it too late? Is it too late?

Brenda:

Can I go?

Cathy:

Can we get a master's? You know, or a PhD in these?

Brenda:

So there are so many options. Ed consultants are a great source for that. Again, you can find Ed consultant on all kinds of therapy. So there are lots of options and yes, I know it's difficult to think about delaying, but would you rather delay one year and have it go really well? Versus have things completely crumble apart in the beginning, and then it's so much harder for them to come back from that. So yeah. Yeah, those are things. And then just as far as if they do go off, I would really recommend, and this is from, you know, experience that we see in the community from you, also from consultants that we've worked with, is to be sure and set very clear expectations about what. You are willing to support when it comes to college. So maybe you have paid for the full year and you've paid for housing, and you paid for the meal plan, and here's what your dad and I or your whoever and I are. Needing to re see in return for that. Right. This is a big financial exchange.

Cathy:

Yeah. And

Brenda:

so, you know, what grade point average are you gonna be expecting? What are, what are your expectations about them being employed or not, or volunteering or not? And as some kids, you know, I have one a, a kiddo who is like probably not ready to get a job, but he certainly could go volunteer at an animal shelter for a few hours a week, so, right. What are, or work

Cathy:

on campus. There's lots of great on-campus jobs for kids too. Yes. Work on campus. They don't, are you gonna give them a car? Yes. You know, that was the other thing, like, yes. You know, we, we actually said no car your freshman year. You know, there was an allowance, you know, that is always gonna come up. What's your allowance for your kid? Yes. And you know, with our son, he actually asked for his graduation money and, you know, we ended up giving all of his graduation money at, at one point. Yeah. And we just thought, well this is the, this is the natural consequence. Right, right. And, you know, it was, it was tough. And he even said, oh, I wish I had that when he got sober. Yeah, I bet. Right now. Yeah. It's like, oh, that would've been great. But anyway yeah. Those are all great, great things that you brought up, Brenda. I agree. You know. Yeah. What are you, what are, you know, what are the parameters that. You wanna have that you will support this Very expensive

Brenda:

Yes. This is very

Cathy:

expensive endeavor.

Brenda:

It's a huge investment, not just financially, but it's a huge investment in your child. And if you're gonna spend that money, you want it to be well spent and well utilized. And so if they're not at a point where they can really u utilize it, well that's when it might be time to take a break and, and find something else to get them set up for the place where they can then do better.

Cathy:

Yeah. Yeah.

Brenda:

And then the last thing that came to mind for me when I was thinking about this is the grief. Yeah, and it is so real. We have several sessions around grief in our community, because I think we talked about this not too long ago on a podcast episode that we did about grief is real, and when you don't get to make that drive or fly and drop them off at the dorm or the fraternity or the sorority, and go to Target and get the bedding, and wear the sweatshirt and have the bumper sticker and go make the care packages with your friends. It is real that you're not getting to do that. I, it feels

Cathy:

so hard. Yeah. It, it is just so hard. And look, you and I come at it from a very post, post Yes. World. And, but when you're in it, like you say, you know, it's just so tough to know that this isn't gonna be part of our family story mm-hmm. At some point, right. Yeah. Because maybe you have, maybe you have great. Feelings about what happened in your own personal life and your own family. And you want that, right? Yeah. But, you know, acknowledge that. Just be kind to yourself, you know? Yes. And And it might happen eventually. Yeah. And it might not. And just to be okay either way, right?

Brenda:

Yes. And I will add to that, but it's hard, you know, we didn't. Get to have that experience with either, well, we have four, but with my two oldest didn't get to have that experience and we've had so many awesome experiences. Yeah, that's, I think what we forget is we start playing this movie forward. The movie goes off track. You know, the, I, I envision, like in the film room, in a movie theater, like the film is spinning off the, off the little film projector. Right. And we're like, oh no, I didn't get to have that experience. And we don't then get the film back on track and go, oh, but wait a minute, there's more ahead and it looks different. Right. And you know, no, I didn't ever have that college experience, but I wouldn't trade those experiences that we've had for the world. Never. Right. So, and it has

Cathy:

been hard. Yes. Hard, hard, hard. And I just think. Oh, having the experiences that we have now with our kids, these healthy, healthy, vibrant relationships, I mean. Oh my gosh.

Brenda:

Yeah,

Cathy:

I'll take it any day over a a hundred percent cotton university of wherever sweatshirt. Exactly. I don't

Brenda:

care, by the way, just pro tip. You can just go buy the sweatshirt. You don't even have to have a kid that goes there. Exactly. Right. So just go buy the sweatshirt and you could just go buy the sweatshirt, wear it if you

Cathy:

really want it. You really want it, go buy the sweatshirt.

Brenda:

Yes. And if you haven't already heard Joanna Lilly's podcast, it is called Success is Subjective. Look it up. Listen to every single episode. I kid you not, she has. All of these people on who have taken a different path mm-hmm. To success. Most of them definitely did not go that, you know, high school for four years and then college for four years and now you're successful. So if you're in a place where you're really grieving or if you are just so frustrated or whatever you're feeling. Listen to every single episode. It is Oh yeah. So good. I mean, some of them, my son's on there as well telling his story. But many of them would, you know, your jaws just dropped on the ground. Like what, how did, how did this turn out? Okay. So, yeah. Can't recommend. We've met,

Cathy:

we've met some of these amazing people at the conferences that we go to, and we think, wow. You know,

Brenda:

yes.

Cathy:

And, and. You know, news flash, they weren't graduating college at 22, by the way. Right. They were able to have these amazing lives due to their struggles and everything else. Yes. So anyway,

Brenda:

yes, we will leave it there. And just wanted to send all of that out to those of you who are in this season. And again, it may not even be college, it may be some other big decision that you're trying to make. And just think through these things that there are are alternatives that in when you look at the long game, this is gonna be much less traumatic. And impactful then you probably think it is right now because right, like Kathy are saying, we're eight, nine years post and it's like, I don't even remember. Like, and I, I can't even, I don't know, like none of the high school stuff matters. It's like your wedding, like you got married 35 years ago. Do you remember what color your napkins were? Do you remember what your cake looked like? I mean, maybe I actually do. Oh, you do? Okay. Well, I, I don't, of course,

Cathy:

you know, I'm the detailed person. I know. I'm the detail. You are a detailed person, but you're right. You know, does it matter that I remember? Not at all. You know, and

Brenda:

so no, like, is your marriage any better today or worse today? No. Because of what color napkins you picked for your wedding? Not at

Cathy:

all. Not at all. So I think

Brenda:

what we're trying to say is. Perspective is everything. Yes. And a few years down the road, this is not gonna feel as like, ooh, you know, as it does today. So

Cathy:

always nice to chat Brenda. See you later. See you later.

Brenda:

Okay my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related. We even have a start here playlist that we created. So if you're new here, be sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use. We have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol. It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent. It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right back here next week.

People on this episode

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Brenda Zane

Host
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Cathy Cioth

Guest