The Hidden Struggles You Can't Name: Debilitating Doubt & the Learning Curve When Your Child Struggles With Addiction, Part Two, with Cathy Cioth

EPISODE DESCRIPTION:

In part two of this two-part episode, Cathy and I dive deep into two more of those sneaky, often invisible struggles that so many of us experience when parenting through substance use and mental health challenges.

PART TWO:

In part two, we marvel at and empathize with you when it comes to the insane learning curve parents face when their child is experimenting with or addicted to substances and facing mental health issues. We faced it ourselves and proudly wear our honorary Real Life Research Ph.D.'s. 

We then share the very real feeling of doubt and acknowledge how it can reach far beyond just parenting. This experience can knock you off your feet and make your world feel like a movie set - we get it, and we're here to talk about it. 

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• All Kinds Of Therapy - treatment and resource locator: www.allkindsoftherapy.com
• Dr. Gabor Maté website
• Hopestream podcast episode with Dr. Maté (episode 131)

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram here
Find us on YouTube here
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

Hopestream Community is a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization and an Amazon Associate. We may make a small commission if you purchase from our links.

Transcript

Cathy: 0:04

And then let's talk about all those little acronyms that, you know. DBT, CBT, MAT, IOP, PHP. Oh my gosh. I remember being on calls with my laptop, you know, off to the side and someone would say something and I would say, what the heck is that? So I'd have to go and, you know, go to Dr. Google and try to find it. And it was crazy. It's all changing every day. New modalities, new treatment forms, new, you know, everything. And so you're constantly learning here.

Brenda: 0:51

Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane. I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high risk lifestyle. Each week we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly. Find real hope in what might feel helpless. You are not helpless and you're not alone anymore. Find more resources@hostingcommunity.org. Okay. We are back with another couple of. Uh, patterns and things that might be going on in your life that you don't recognize these hidden struggles that are really important to, to recognize. So Cathy and I planned to do this on one episode and we realized we just. I just can't, we just talk too much

Cathy: 1:58

there. Well, first of all, there's so much great information out there, so you know, it's, it's really great. Two episodes. It is.

Brenda: 2:06

Two episodes. It is. Okay. So the next thing that we had wanted to talk about, and I know I absolutely felt this is just the overwhelming learning curve that you go on. I heard a great analogy to the, somebody said, you know, if my son broke his leg and needed surgery, I wouldn't have to become the knee surgeon or the leg. Like I wouldn't have to become a surgeon. But really when, when your kid struggles with addiction and substances and mental health, oh yes, you are gonna become that expert. You have to. Yeah. I just thought that was a really good analogy.

Cathy: 2:46

You know what the beauty of all of this is that there are people to help you with this. Yes. However, you will become that expert because there are so many different things that insurance, let's just take insurance for one. I mean, right. If, if your kid breaks their leg, you know, you just kind of go through those normal channels of insurance. You know, okay, you go to the hospital, they get a cast, blah, blah, blah, and you know, it's kind of. For this. Well, some treatments are covered, others aren't.

Brenda: 3:16

Maybe for 14 days, maybe 11 days, but we'll let you know. In four days. We'll let you know exactly after we do a drug test. I mean, it's bananas. It's truly,

Cathy: 3:27

oh, you didn't, you didn't tell us that your child has a comorbidity, you know, a mental health diagnosis along with that, you know, so, oh, well this is covered and then this isn't. So yes, it's enough to absolutely. I, I don't know it, it's enough to drive you a little crazy. You feel like you're in this AP class of, you know. What, what do we call this AP class? I don't even know. I don't even know. What would the name of this class be? I don't

Brenda: 3:52

even know. But there's, you know, besides the insurance thing, then there's legal because mm-hmm. Often, not always, but often there are legal issues that come up and I will never forget the first time I walked into a bail bonds office. That was an experience. I did it a couple times. Hope I never have to do it again. Just figuring out treatment options, right? I mean, luckily, so I'll put a plug in here for all kinds of therapy.com. Our good friend Jenny Wilder has created an amazing. Treatment filtering and location system, website thing. I mean, it's awesome.

Cathy: 4:34

All kinds of support, right? All kinds of support for you, for your kiddo, for every, it's just wonderful. All kinds of therapy.com.

Brenda: 4:42

And you can, I think now sort by your insurance company. So huge. We'll put a link in that, in case you missed that in the show notes. But that's huge. I did, I had no idea any of that stuff existed. You're also trying to figure out family dynamics because now you've got other kids involved. You've got maybe an ex a partner, uh, you know, co-parents. You're trying to explain all of this to your parents or your in-laws. So. We're not even done. Then there's like. Am I enabling? I keep getting told I'm enabling. Am I codependent? Oh no. Now I have to become an expert in codependence. What does that mean?

Cathy: 5:20

You need a support system. Do you go to, you know, there, there are so many wonderful support systems out there and you know, and where do you go for yourself? You know? And oh, by the way, I have to help myself here because I am in this. You know, mode where I just need to help my kid right now. Don't talk about me. And then let's talk about all those little acronyms that you know. D-B-T-C-B-T, Matt, I-O-P-P-H-P. Oh my gosh, I was trying to think. I remember being on calls and. With my laptop, you know, off to the side and someone would say something and I would say, what the heck is that? So I'd have to go and, you know, go to Dr. Google and try to find it. And it was crazy. I will be the first to say I am not all caught up on everything because it does, it's. All changing every day. Yes. New modalities, new treatment forms, new, you know, everything. And so anyway, it's, you're constantly learning here.

Brenda: 6:24

You're constantly learning. But then also as you learn, that almost creates a new problem because now you know more. So now you're like, oh, okay. I read, you know, Dr. Gab Montes. Material and he talks about trauma and childhood trauma. And then I learned about the ACEs study and adverse childhood experiences. And all of a sudden now I'm thinking about what happened to my kid when they were five. And I wasn't even thinking about that before. So it's good and bad, right? Because now you have more information. Now you wanna seek more information. As you get deeper and deeper into this, you might find some stuff that you didn't want to find. Right. You might find, you know, I can't count how many people I have talked to who have said, gosh, my, you know, my kid's 23, and we just now found out about some sexual abuse that happened. Yeah. When they were 5, 6, 7 years old. Right. And. How traumatizing is that for the parent to find out to know that their child never told anybody? Yeah, it often like divides families because some people believe it and some people don't. So we just, I don't know that there's really a huge lesson here. I think this is more of just validating if you're feeling overwhelmed. Just give yourself a break. I know we had a member at one point who was really cute. She, she kind of was offline for a few weeks and we were like, gosh, where'd she go? And she came back and she said, my therapist made me take a break.

Cathy: 8:03

Yeah. She

Brenda: 8:03

made me stop reading books, listening to podcasts, stop going in the community. Like I just had to stop. And obviously you don't do that if you're in the middle of a crisis, but. If you're at a point where things are, even if they're not great, they're just kind of steadily, not great, or if they're in treatment, give yourself a break. Go listen to comedy shows, or go learn about gardening or sewing or the sky or the water, whatever, like. Give yourself a break.

Cathy: 8:36

It is so, so true. I, you know, it's so funny. I mean, I know that when I was going through some really tough times and I thought, I just wanna, I always wanna sit and watch Netflix or whatever, and I remember finding Old Brady Bunch episodes, first of all, those are absolutely hilarious to watch, you know, that's awesome. But anyway, but that's because I thought, you know what? They're pretty innocent. There's not gonna be anything that's gonna set me off here or make me stressed out. Yes. And so definitely I, yeah, I think that is the lesson here. You know, to really put on your oxygen mask here is really what we tell moms, right? It's just, if it's a crisis. Obviously write it out as much as you can. Yeah. And just know that there will be an end of this little storm and you're gonna have to kind of turn your attention onto yourself a little bit and just give yourself a chance to just, you know, chill and relax and you know it. It's not that life is gonna be perfect, but that you do need to take care of your mental health. And and that might be getting a therapist too, because you're right. I mean, I, it is hard, you know, when you find out things that might have happened in your kiddo's life that you didn't know about and, and that's traumatizing for the parents too, and Oh

Brenda: 9:57

yeah.

Cathy: 9:58

You know,

Brenda: 9:58

absolutely. And on our website, we have a resources tab and there's some excellent resources there. So if you're in the sort of beginning stages of this. Go there, there's stuff you can download. It's all free, and you can just start learning, you know, slowly, steadily. If you can get, if you have a co-parent in your life and you can get them to do it with you, we always recommend the book Beyond Addiction and the workbook that goes with that. Things can feel very loose and not solid, not concrete, like, oh, okay. Well, yeah, so I learned about. Trauma. Trauma. And then now I'm learning about this other thing. But there's, it's hard to just grasp onto anything if you don't know what's really going on with your child. And you might be hearing something from them and seeing something else. And so what I love about this workbook and the book Beyond Addiction is it actually does give you some things that feel like, okay. I got this information out on a page. I like the I think it's called a functional analysis in craft, I can't remember what it's called in, in the Beyond Addiction Workbook, but you actually write out some patterns and recognizing patterns is very helpful. So things like that where you're recognizing who are, who is your child usually with, when they're using, what mood are they in? Literally like what time of day and where. And so it gets you to a point where things feel a little bit more real versus just like, oh, this craziness is going on around me and I can't put my hand on any of it. That was a really long, roundabout way to talk about this workbook. It's, it's very helpful.

Cathy: 11:51

And you know, one thing I also wanted to say is that if your kiddo is in treatment of any kind. You know what, lean into those professionals too. Oh, yes. Good point. I I did that a lot. You know, I mean, just, you know, it, it's at some point where you're just gonna say, I have no idea if my kid needs a PHP or an IOP If someone's wondering what those are, it's partial hospitalization program, or IOP is intensive outpatient program. I. If someone is recommending that for your kiddo, you know, ask them why, what is this? And tell me more about it. You know, it, it's, it's okay, uh, to not know. The answer here, not know what all of these acronyms are, not know what DBT is, and you don't have to go to Google to get this answer. Ask the professional that's recommending this for your child. And really lean into those professionals. Uh, I learned to do that a lot and it, it was just so helpful and, you know, their lens on it just in regards to your own child, I think is super helpful.

Brenda: 13:03

Yeah. And if you're, if you don't have that. Access because your child's not in treatment. I'm just gonna recommend the Hope Stream podcast because I've had, one of the reasons I started the podcast is because I did learn so much through all of the people I met on our journey, and on the other end of that I was like, holy cow. Where would I have ever met these people if my child did not end up in treatment? And we are fortunate, very fortunate and privileged to be able to have him go into formalized treatment.

Cathy: 13:35

That's a pretty good podcast, I think. Yeah,

Brenda: 13:38

maybe I should listen to it sometime. But seriously, I've had on all of the people who I wished. I could have all of you all sit down with and have a, a heart to heart with people that will just talk straight, you know, no bs like tell it like it is. Therapeutic consultants, program owners, you know, people in recovery, like everything, which is part of the reason why we're doing so many episodes this season about. Us about Hope Stream about our families, because we've had so many amazing experts on, and we're queuing some up, some really amazing other ones. But truly, if you, if you are not in a position where your child's in treatment or you can't afford to go and, you know, access all of these people because they are expensive to access, that is for sure. Just listen to the podcast. You'll, you'll hear from all of them. So. Yes. I think if you know at the time if we had had Hope Stream, that would've been a no brainer to join, but we did not. So we kind of muddled our way through it. And I know that the typical Hope Stream listener, even if you're brand new, and this is the first episode you've ever listened to, I am guessing that you are a person who loves to learn. You never stop learning. You won't stop learning, especially when it comes to your child. You have this kind of voracious appetite for more and more and more, which is amazing. But you do not have to become a PhD in all of this stuff. Lean on some other people. Lean on us. On your treatment folks, your local, even your local county or city probably has some amazing resources. So just don't you, you don't, you only have so much energy, right?

Cathy: 15:38

Absolutely. So you gotta

Brenda: 15:38

save some of that energy for yourself, and you have to save some of that energy for. Those conversations with your child so that you can be calm, you can press the pause button, you can use positive communication. Like all of that takes energy. Hey, I wanna pause for just a sec to talk about something that has been life-changing for so many women who started right where you might be. By listening to the show, if you're feeling the isolation, the exhaustion, like nobody gets what you're going through, there is a place designed specifically for you. The stream is our private community for moms and female caregivers, for parenting teens and young adults through substance use and mental health struggles. And when I say private, I mean completely confidential. It is not connected to Facebook or any other platform, or your business could become everyone's business. What members love about this stream is that you can be as visible or as anonymous as you want. Some moms jump right into conversations and calls. Others like to read and learn quietly in the background. Both are perfect. It's not social media. It's genuine community focused on learning growth and breaking through the isolation that might be keeping you from moving forward. Right now. Whether your child is in active use in treatment or early recovery. You'll find practical strategies and tools that actually help motivate healthier choices because we know you wanna see positive change in your family. Check it out@hopestreamcommunity.org. We would love to welcome you into this village of support and understanding. Okay, back to the show. So the last topic that we'll cover in this little two part series is, and this is a big one, doubt, and I don't hear very many people talking about this, which is why I wanted to bring it up. And you and I have had many conversations about how we've doubted ourselves, but I think it goes pretty deep, which is why I wanted to touch on it today. 'cause it is. This domino effect that can start just, I think of the what is it, the Rube Goldberg thing where you have all the dominoes and you know, people make ones that go like through different rooms and there's all this stuff. Yeah. I think of it like that. It's the marble that drops off the top and then starts this chain reaction. Because it really can go through every area of your life, not just. Oh, am I doing the right thing about, you know, how I'm interacting with my child or did I pick the right treatment program? You question everything like this shakes you to your core, and it can be slow. It can sneak up on you. But I think for me, I started to look through this lens that made me say, huh. I didn't see this coming. What else am I not catching onto? Or, you know? Did I cause this? Well, if I caused this, what else did I Cause I don't know, is this resonating with you

Cathy: 19:11

or not? Yeah, it is. It, it definitely is. There's de well, you know, we've talked before about my bricks to the head. When this all showed up in my life, I just, I just couldn't believe it, you know? And yes, and then it just made me truly doubt everything that I did. As far as raising my kids, being that stay-at-home mom, and you know, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? For me, it resonated during that time of when our crisis was really high and then it continued when they were in treatment. Is this the right thing? Is this the sure thing? Did we pick the right place? And you know, and then afterwards, right? I mean, it just doubt is a really, first of all. It can be really dangerous too because you can, you could start to really focus on. The what ifs. And, and that really just takes you away, right? From what we really need to do or just live in the present and just, it might not be the right answer, you know, all, all of these things, right? It might not be the right treatment program. It might not be the right way that you handled it. It. Might not, it might not, it might not.

Brenda: 20:25

I think we've referenced this episode before, but the episode with Dina Zaro, that is, I believe, called the Chinese farmer. Yeah. If you search on our website, search Chinese farmer and that one will come up. That's an excellent one if you are living with a lot of doubt because as we all know, when this starts happening. All of a sudden your relationship with everyone else in your world, especially if you are married or if you're in a partnership with somebody, you are going to learn a lot about that person.

Cathy: 20:55

Oh yeah. You're

Brenda: 20:55

gonna learn how they respond to crisis. You're gonna learn a lot about their childhood. You're gonna learn things that you did not know about this person through the lens of your child's struggle. And so that can make you doubt. Did I. Marry, or am I with the right person? Because they might respond in a way that you did not expect. Like, oh, who is this person that is now living with me? I know, and this happened a little bit later but I doubted my career because mm-hmm. Through all of this, it seems what I used to think was so important and so, you know. Serious, all of a sudden just became irrelevant. You know, I tell the story of being after my son's last overdose and I went back to work and I was in advertising and one of our clients was particularly difficult and he was, we were in a meeting and he just kept going on and on about how the size of the company's logo was not big enough in this ad. And I had just been with my son. Laying on life support with a tube down his throat. And I was like, I cannot do this anymore. This is so meaningless. Yeah. So that could be good, right? Like that. That could be a good thing that you start to reevaluate. And I guess I would say if it feels like doubt, see if you can reframe that as. Reevaluating. So I mm-hmm. Had to reevaluate my relationship with my job and I was like, is this what I wanna be doing? So it's not that doubt has to be bad, right? But just try to, try to not like wallow in it and let it eat you up and make you feel bad. Try to see if you can put a different lens on it and say, okay, if I'm feeling this way, does that mean I should potentially reevaluate this?

Cathy: 22:57

I had that situation happen with friends and you know, it was the same thing. You know, I'm looking at friendships and things that were going on in other friends' lives, you know, that, you know, they were very worried about colleges and what kids, you know, what colleges their kids were gonna get into and whether they were gonna get. Scholarships, et cetera, or whatever.

Brenda: 23:22

Or what sorority or what fraternity. Or what

Cathy: 23:25

sorority. Or fraternity, and you know, it is, to be honest, in the beginning it was really made me angry and sad, you know? Yeah. Those mix of emotions. And then I realized, well, that's okay. They're just on a different path. That doesn't mean that there isn't anything that's going on in their lives that they're challenged with, you know, but it's just they're on a different path than I am. And that's okay. And boy did I really appreciate those friends that might have had those same things going on. But they took that time for me just to give me a call and say, how are you doing today? You know? Mm. I know it's really tough for you and boy, the circle got a little smaller for me, honestly. But. It, it during that time it got small and now it's pretty big again, because I realize where the folks that I consider really good friends now are for you. Brenda showed up in my life and other folks that were, you know, maybe I wasn't as close to, but I became very close to because we realized that we had a similar journey with our kids and that's just been, gosh, that's just gold. I just love it and yeah. Appreciating the doubt, right? Because it for, well, you know, for you and I, it showed us a different career path in our lives. Yeah. So it definitely did in a really amazing way, and I don't even like to call it a career. It's just, you know, a more of a passion and a mission, you know, of helping other parents and especially the moms, you know, going through this. So,

Brenda: 25:01

yeah, for sure. The, the friend thing is hard, but it does. Provide a good filter, provide if you're, mm-hmm. If you're wondering who your really good friends are,

Cathy: 25:10

it's really true.

Brenda: 25:11

It does provide a good filter on that. You, you learn pretty quickly. When your kid's, the bad kid in the neighborhood, you learn who your good friends are and, and I am, same with you, I cherish those relationships. And of course we have our couple of hundred moms in the stream that are all like our besties now and we go on fun trips and retreats with them, so that's really special too. So there, there can be upsides for sure. It really wasn't until I went to Al-Anon a couple of times and I saw parents. In their seventies talking about their 4-year-old kids. And I will never forget coming home from one of those meetings and saying to my husband, I think this is going to be a while. And I had never really accepted that before. I was always looking very, okay, the next time he goes to treatment, okay, the next that you know, this therapist is gonna fix it. Oh no, that therapist is gonna fix it. And I, I, I had never taken that long view. And so that's when I started to say, holy cow, how am I physically, mentally, emotionally, gonna. Be here for the long haul, which is why we are always harping on you to take care of your body because you're going to need it. It is going to be needed, and it's so hard to do and it's so important to do. And don't look at other parents and say, well, she seems to be handling this way better than me. You know, we have a picture of our last retreat. Our one, the one that we did in Texas, and we had 20 moms there, and we had this beautiful picture the last day in front of this ranch. And we all have our hats and everybody, and if you looked at that picture, you would probably say, oh, they all, what were you guys sorority sisters or something like. You would not know that these 20 women have kids in every stage of from crisis to recovery to everything. And so you could look at something like that and say, well, I'm not handling it that well, and you can't do that. You just have to look and do the best that you can for yourself and know that despite what you see on the outside, like I looked at some of those moms that were there and I know what's going on at home. And they're taking good care of themself and they are doing the best that they can, and they're putting one foot in front of the other and going to the freaking yoga class that they don't even wanna go to, but they know they need to

Cathy: 27:56

Right. To be

Brenda: 27:57

able to be there for their child. And so it's, it's not easy, but it's so important.

Cathy: 28:02

It's so important. And I can share a personal story because, you know, for us, you know, the, the journey kind of continued after the, the big crisis. I. You know, so many years ago, and I remember thinking, okay, I think things are kind of, are smoothing out. And I was still doing all the little acts of self-care that I had to do. I still continued with my prayer practice and my, you know, just getting out and what I needed to do, the breathing, the grounding, and all of that. And then we had a crisis again, and it was tough. No doubt. However, I saw how resilient I was and I thought that is the difference. Yes. Because before when we were in crisis, I had no practice whatsoever and it took me out. I was out for a while. Yes. But this last time I wasn't out as long and, you know, and it was just, gosh, it was just I, I'll never forget that. I turned to my husband and I said, you and I both boomerang back pretty well from that. We were still in the crisis of it.

Brenda: 29:13

Mm-hmm.

Cathy: 29:13

But we both looked at each other. I, I'll never forget, we were eating dinner and first of all, we were eating and, and we both say, you know, we felt like pinching each other. Like, can you believe that we are actually doing a pretty good job right now? And so just having that clear mind too helped us really. Handle what we were going through at that time, this crisis.

Brenda: 29:42

Yeah.

Cathy: 29:43

So much better. And so it is. Anyway, all that to say it was a great lesson.

Brenda: 29:49

Well, I think that is a perfect example when people will ask me sometimes, like, what does it mean that I need to work on my recovery? Mm-hmm. I think it's just my kid, right? That needs to get into recovery. So I think what you just said there is a perfect example because you can be. Ooh, this is a good analogy. I never thought about this before. Like we talk about our kids, they can just be sober, right? They can be abstinent and sober, and I think, you know, somebody on podcast not long ago said That just means they're between the last drink and the next drink. That's what that is. Being in recovery is different. It means you are actively working practices that keep you from wanting or needing. I'm gonna say have a drink, but it could be any, any substance, and it's the same for us. We can steal ourselves and be stoic and say, I got this. And to me, that's the equivalent of like abstinence. Like I'm gonna abstain from being emotional about this. Yeah. But you're not in recovery. You're not using tools, you're not learning craft, you're not taking care of yourself. You're not learning motivational interviewing. That means you're in recovery with your. Child who may or may not be there yet. And so that's a big distinction is you, you and your husband in that time because you were working on your own recovery. You did bounce back and you were able to handle everything with grace and calmness and all of that. Versus if you guys had just been like, well, we are just gonna suck it up and we are just not gonna, we're gonna be tough love, and we're gonna, you know, that would, that would've had a very different outcome. I.

Cathy: 31:33

Yeah. Yeah. And you'll, you'll, you know, you'll get great at it too, because you'll start to realize, 'cause it is not so black and white, right. When you're going through this whole recovery process, just like with our kids, right. Whatever kind of recovery they're in. I know for me, one of my, one of my little. Uh, tell signs is that when I find myself spiraling, I raising my hand. I did that just a few weeks ago. One of my kids was at a, you know, five day concert and that just brought up a lot of old memories of, oh my gosh, what is it like? And you know, of course I started to go down the rabbit hole a little bit, but I caught myself. I said, what are you doing? Is it true? You know? Right. Had to ask and ask myself the questions. Is it true? I doubled up on what I needed to do. You know, started the journaling a little more intently. Started really, you know, asking myself a lot of questions and you know, was able to get out of it. And and I realized though, 'cause you have to be really mindful. Every day of little things. That might be those little triggers. Those little tell signs for you. So it is work.

Brenda: 32:52

Yeah, it's work. It's work. It just is. It just is. There's no way to get around it. I know that's not what everybody wants to hear. However, it benefits you in so many different ways in life. It's not just with our kids. You know when your parents are sick and you start to spiral about them, or. Whatever happens, you've got these tools to turn to. They're not just exclusively for kids, you know, and people that you love struggling with. Substances works for everything. So

Cathy: 33:22

absolutely

Brenda: 33:23

bonus. It's a bonus. All right, ma'am. Well, I'm sure that are beautiful listeners and anyone who's. A man and doesn't consider himself to be beautiful, I would still say you're a beautiful human. Just know that this is, these are all normal. So this was part two. If you miss part one, go back an episode. We did. Two others on that one. It's normal. It's you're human. It's a hundred percent validated. That's, I think really more than anything, more than even giving you guys tools on this one. It's. Just we see you. It is so normal. Don't feel bad if you're feeling these things. Just check the box and know you're right on track. You're right exactly where you're supposed to be.

Cathy: 34:13

Lots of grace here. Lots of grace, right?

Brenda: 34:16

Yes, absolutely. All right, well, thank you. We'll talk

Cathy: 34:19

later. Yeah. Renu. Nice chatting.

Brenda: 34:22

Okay, my friend. If you want the transcript or the show notes and resources from this episode, just go to our website, hope Stream community.org, and click podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related. We even have a start here playlist that we created. So if you're new here, be sure to check that out. Also, if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance use, I. We have got a free ebook for you. It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Misusing Drugs and Alcohol. It'll introduce you to ways that you can build connection and relationship with your child versus distancing and letting them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer and it's totally free. Just go to Hope Stream community.org/worried to download that. You are amazing my friend. You are such an elite level parent. It is an honor to be here with you and please know you're not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be okay sending all my love and light and I will meet you right back here next week.