Three Things We Want You To Know If Your Child Struggles With Mental Health and Substance Misuse, with Cathy Cioth

ABOUT THE EPISODE:

Over the five years of doing this podcast and participating in hundreds of calls and groups in The Stream, our online community for moms, Cathy and I have seen patterns emerge and today we’re talking about a few of them. We’re sharing three things we see come up over and over which have a great impact on parents when they have a child or children who struggle with mental health and substance misuse. 

The good news is that there are simple (not easy) and practical ways you can modify your behavior and thinking that can radically improve the difficult season of life you’re in. Join us as we share these three important topics that can have a major influence on your family.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Episode 174 on boundaries, with Brenda & Cathay
• Nancy Landrum episode on boundaries, #245
• Mary Crocker Cook on episode #223
• Bill Guy on episode #137

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Find us on Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

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Transcript

Cathy: 0:02

I took it personally. I thought it was really a reflection of our parenting and, and of course, some, it was for sure, but I was parenting out of fear. That was significant. I didn't realize how much that had an impact on our kids and my mental health, my husband's mental health. I learned much later on that, you know. I could change in a different way. You are listening to Hope Stream. If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances is in a treatment program or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place. This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me. Brenda Zane, your host and fellow mom, to a child who struggled. This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents. So after the episode head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity. org. I'm, so glad you're here. Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people. And now let's get into today's show. Hello, Miss Kathy. Welcome back to the podcast. Happy new year, Brenda. Yeah, happy new year. I guess it is only 10 days into January. It's only 10 days in, but it feels like Oh my gosh. Wow. 2025 has come out. With a bang. Yes. On fire. On fire. I don't. Yeah. I'm in California. So that's kind of been the top of the news hour these days. So just thinking about all those folks and realizing so much can change in an instant. So yeah. So much so much we were just on the phone with our Marketing gal who's down in the LA area with the fires that are going on if you're listening in real time And it was a good conversation just around, you know, she did have to evacuate. It was like, what do you bring? Right look around right and it's like what do you bring? What do you bring? I think it's a very interesting Very interesting thing to noodle on, you know, what's important? Yeah. And how she shared like how she was looking around and thinking, okay, I think we're good to go. I could fill my car with all of these things, but you know, realizing she said, it's weird to think like they're really the most important thing is, you know, her fiance and just being safe and, and all of that. And shoes. She did say shoes. I need shoes. Shoes on my back, and some clothes on my back, yeah. Shoes and clothes on my back, obviously, yeah. Yeah. Well, it does remind you the impermanence of literally everything and it is, I think we're all, you know, thinking about that. Same with the Maui fire, right? When you watched Maui burning, just, it's so uncomprehensible but yeah, it's You know, and I was thinking about that this weekend. I was at a memorial for a 27 year old, which is never fun who died in a very tragic diving accident, nothing to do with substances. And I, and, and then I was thinking about our parents and it's almost like we can get really laser focused on, I gotta get them off these drugs and get their mental health in order because then everything's going to be fixed. And, you know, this young man who passed away, no substances, no anything, like he was the epitome of living this incredible life, healthy and adventurous and all these things. So there is no guarantee. And I think it's a really good kind of filter to put over everything that we do with the fires or with something like that, like, even if they do get well, and I know you and I have this, you know, Kind of mindset because we've been through so much that every time I talk to my kids or I say goodbye I kind of do think what if this was the last time, you know? Yeah, right now I have both minor and different my two and then I have two stepkids But actually all four of them are in different countries right now but you know, my two are in third world countries right now at the same time and You think about it a little bit. You do And you think about it and realize also how important it is just to stay in the present moment. Yes. And, you know, it, it's. You can really drive yourself a little crazy by going through the what ifs and, you know, and just to be, you know, the gratitude thing, right? The gratitude thing is so important. It's so important. I've got a father in law who's 101 and a half. It's funny how you start life by adding halves to yours, but at the end of your life, too, you also add halves. And one thing that I love about him is that he has always had so much gratitude for just the present moment. And anyway, it's, it's a good reminder, but we do know, right? It's a reality that the things are permanent. Take care of your hearts wherever you are. When I interviewed Bill, who was our host in the woods for a little bit and he suddenly passed away, which kind of ties into this whole thing. But what I was. thinking about was the conversation that I had with him around his son, who he lost his substance use. And he said, Brenda, and he had that great Southern accent, right? Which I can't do. So I won't even try. He was from Oklahoma. And he said, you know, the great thing about the relationship that we had that he built through craft and through the invitation to change, even though his son was pretty deep in substance use. He said, we still had that relationship. And so every time I got to sit with him and talk with him and, you know, I would leave him and I thought, you know, if this is the last time it's been so great. And it was a loving conversation. And it was, you know, was it ideal? Probably not, you know, would he have loved for him to be completely sober and recovery? Of course But to be able to think, you know, if this is the last conversation I get to have with this person It's a good one. I remember you telling me about that years ago and thinking You know, really that's what it's all about, you know, yeah that we can't control outcomes and Well, we're gonna talk about that a little bit today. Yes, we are Today we can't really control outcomes, but you know, how can you be in that present moment and and what you're okay with Yeah, so we titled this episode the three things podcast because there are some things that come up over and over and over Again, I am going on I can't believe this is the sixth season of the podcast and you and I have been at working at this together for Four and a half years or something like that a lot of a lot of years. Let's just call it a lot of years and We do see trends You We do see things come up over and over. And so we thought it would be a good idea just to pull out a couple of those. This isn't by any means an exhaustive list of the things that come up over and over, but three that seem to be kind of pertinent today and that we talk a lot about. And one of those is. That's what we're sort of calling the system change. We all are operating within a system, whether that's your biological family, whether that's a family that you've kind of constructed of friends and other important people, even at work, right? You're working within a system. And so the good news about that is that you can change a system. Systems are not permanent things. Going back to you. Thank goodness. So we're going along life, right? Like, you're just kind of cruising along. You think everything is okay, and then things start to get a little bumpy, and then you're like, hmm, maybe there's some little yellow flags along the way. Yeah. And it's really because our kids started making some of these changes. For our family, it was a big deal. A pretty significant shift in friends that my son made, his appearance, the way he dressed, the music he listened to, those types of things. So as he was making these changes, and I think of those as drops in a bucket of water, so he's dropping something in and it creates a ripple effect, right? Yeah. And the way it changed me was I became more fearful, I became more critical of him, uh, I became more hypervigilant. Where is he? What is he doing? Trying to track him. So that's just a kind of an example of when, when one person changes, everybody starts to change. Oh yeah. What was that for your family? You know, it's interesting because. We didn't have as much of the friendship changing to the drastic effect You know, definitely grades changed when this was going on, grades changed, but also those kind of coupled along with, you know, significant chapters happening, you know, whether school starting or, you know, new, new starting high school, or, you know, maybe right before, you know, college. applying to colleges. So, you know, you're constantly asking yourself, is this normal or is this related to something else? And so, but you're right. The changes did get greater. And I know personally, I took it personally. I thought, you know, it was really a reflection of, you know, our parenting and, and of course some, it was for sure, but I was parenting out of fear and, and that was significant. I didn't realize how much that had an impact on our kids. And my mental health, my husband's mental health, it didn't take long for that little pebble that was dropped into the bucket to really feel it almost became like huge waves. Let's just put it that way. Started off with little ripples that very quickly became big waves because you're right. That system changes by somebody changing a little bit and then we all react to it. I learned much later on that, you know, I could change in a different way. Yes. What were the first changes that you made in yourself that you started seeing impacting your kids? I remember one of my kids just. Would not get up in the morning was sleeping in till pretty late and there was a job that this person had to get to And I just couldn't get over that like how could you sleep through? You know the start of getting to your job And so I remember that I decided one day that I would just not be there in the morning I altered my exercise time. So instead of, you know, exercising really, I, I love to get up early, early in the morning and go, I decide I'll just go later. And so I would make sure I was out of the house for a couple hours and this allowed natural consequences to happen. And you know, I would say that that was pretty impactful in a good way, right? Because those were all, nothing really changed. With that one, you know, losing a job one time or a couple of times, but I realized that I'm like, oh, okay, these natural consequences. And as I found out later, those were super impactful to, uh, my kiddo wanting to get help. And, you know, that was a start that what about you? What did you, what did you do that? The thing that really, I first started noticing was the anxiety would build so much inside of me that like, I would have a hard time breathing. I would almost be like hyperventilating. And I remember this is before I'd even heard of the term breath work or anything like that. I mean, I literally knew nothing about any of that. I thought that was so woo woo. Like anybody who does anything like that must be crazy. But I remember standing, I will never forget standing in my kitchen one day and I was looking out the window and I just like, I just took this huge breath and then I let it out. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, that felt really good. So I did it again. So I just started doing some deep breathing completely without any knowledge of what I was doing, but I just knew that it was helping me in those moments where I felt like I was going to hyperventilate. Cause I was, Oh, anxious and so worried regardless of what that was about. I was very conflict avoidant. So like if I knew my son was going to be coming home, I would get so anxious because it was like a, what condition is he going to be in? What kind of a conversation are we going to have? I need to confront him on this thing. I need to confront him on this other thing. And I got four attendance robo calls today. So I know he didn't go to school, you know, right. Right. And that just builds and builds and builds inside of you. And then, so I think the breathing thing was really, And then through that, I was able to get a little bit of distance from what was going on. So then I could start to do things like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't go down and beg and plead and pull him out of bed and start the shower for him. And, you know, all the things you talk about that didn't really sound crazy to me, right? That would, those were things that you just did because. That's all you really knew at the time. Yeah. So I guess the point of this, the system conversation is that just like when our kids started to change, In a negative way and that impacted other people in, in the house and family and wherever in a negative way, the same is true in reverse that when we start to make changes in ourselves in a healthy way, that also has a ripple effect. So me doing some deep breathing is a drop in that bucket with the ripple effect of now I'm not screaming at my kid the minute he walks through the door. I might've waited five minutes or for you, you know, changing your workout routine, that was your drop in the bucket. And then that creates a ripple effect. And so I think sometimes I guess what I see in our community and in all the moms that we work with is I feel like sometimes they think they need to make all of these gigantic changes all at once, right? Like I have to learn this whole craft approach. I have to learn this whole invitation to change. I have to, whatever it is. And it's like, actually. Just making one drop in that bucket, make one positive change. Now, is that going to change everything for the better instantly? Of course not, but it will start to build and those ripples will start to impact. More and more, and it does take time and it takes repeated effort, of course, there. And I was, I was even saying this last night in our invitation to change group on the call that there is no possible way that if you make a change, that it isn't going to impact the people around you. It's impossible. So trying to think small, like what is a small thing that I can do? What's the small drop in the bucket? That will have that impact and that ripple effect. And it can't not, you know, like I even remember being in college and I had this roommate who was a nursing student. And I'll tell you what, nursing students have to study a lot. Like I was a business major, so it wasn't as intense. And the year that we lived together, my study habits completely changed. Because I watched her, I watched how she took notes, I watched how she, you know, just, and it wasn't that she was telling me, Oh, Brenda, you need to change how you study. It was completely through osmosis, just me seeing how she was doing it and she was getting good results. And I was like, huh, you know, that's interesting. So it's, it's not any sort of like an earth shattering concept. It's pretty good. You know, simple, but it's super effective. And I would say if somebody wanted to start with. Something. Just take care of yourself. You know, we're at the start of the new year and I think it's really great. I, you know, whether you believe in resolutions or not, I know I've, I'm probably like everybody, right? You start with, I'm going to do this and then, you know, wah, wah, you're, you're in March and things didn't go. But when you start small. You know, and, and don't have that huge list of things. Start really small. Like you say, just take a, you tell yourself while you're waiting for your coffee to perk in the morning that you're just going to take, stand there and take, you know, five deep cleansing breaths. That's a way you, you start that routine and it just becomes a habit, you know, that, you know, we've all kind of gone into bad habits or good habits, right? So think of what really would work for you. You know, I've been doing this really cool, uh, devotion every night before I go to bed. And there are some nights I am so tired I think, oh my gosh, I'm probably gonna fall asleep in the middle of it. And that's okay because as long as I still sit there and do it, I, I find that I sleep really great so I know I'm still absorbing it. So, uh, start small with those little tiny acts. And then, you know, when it comes to craft, ITC, I've always coached, you know, take a tool that feels manageable to you, you know, take, maybe it's positive communication. You know, maybe it's telling your kid, Hey, thanks for throwing that sock in the laundry. Thanks for putting your dish in the dishwasher. Take that small. tool and just say, Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to try to find something good three times this week. And you know, you just never know that ripple effect that's going to happen. Absolutely. So yeah, taking care of yourself is always just like, if you're at a loss for anything, start with that because that shows people how to treat you, right? If you're taking care of yourself and you're treating yourself well, You're sort of training people like this is how I roll. I take care of myself. Yeah. So that's always a good thing. to me. Mm hmm. This is what's important to me. I'm not afraid to say it. I love that. I would, I would echo that. The positive communication, taking care of yourself and, or just, you know, depending on how your relationship is with your child, you could say to them, Hey, you know, I'm kind of working on some new stuff this year. What's one thing I could do better? To interact with you love that now there may be sometimes like there was a point in our communication where I could not have said That to my son, but there were times where I could have you know, when things were a little bit better I could have said, you know, and this is again in the car, don't be face to face, like be side by side, preferably doing something else, you know, and you could almost ask it in kind of like a funny way, like, Oh, you know, it's beginning of the year and I'm doing some stuff like throw out three things that I could do better. With you. Right? And you never know what they're gonna say. They'll probably look at you like a martian at first.'cause it's like, what? What? But what a great conversation opener, right? Like you never know what they're gonna say, right? Never know. And what if they say something like. You know, Mom, it's kind of cool that we could just be in the car and not say anything. Right. And how cool would that be, right? That you're just in the car with them and just relishing that time together, but they still want to be in the car with you. They're not asking their friends to take them someplace. So anyway, finding the positive and things like that. So I love that. Yes, gosh, I'd love to maybe we should do an episode about what do you think our kids would have said? All those years ago. That would be fun Or we could get the kids on and ask them. Yeah. Yeah Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child worried sick about their substance use? I have been there and I want you to know there's hope. This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents. We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family. So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like you're part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments. We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom. We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you. Head over to hopestreamcommunity. org to tap into all our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community. Remember you are not alone in this. We're doing it together. Now, let's get back to the conversation. Second one, I think we talk about this a lot. I feel like we talk about this a lot. Oh, we do, but it's so important, right? And it's honestly, it's, it can be confusing to people too. Yeah. And this topic is boundaries, you know, we're kind of, in a way we're segueing into it a little bit from the previous one by saying what's important to us, because that's really what a boundary is. We are. It did an entire episode on boundaries. It's episode 174 and it's very popular. It's been downloaded a lot. And I think boundaries gets confusing because people think that they're rules. They think that they are something that you use to control other people. So if you're wondering what a boundary is, go back and listen to episode 174, start there. But with this, we thought because we hear this all the time, it's. There's, there's questions about practical boundaries, which are things like money, housing, phones, cars, cars, yes. The tangible things. And then there's also personal boundaries, which are the things that we decide that we are either going to do or not do. What are some of the boundaries that you see? What are mamas struggling with the most? Oh gosh, honestly, the practical boundaries, hands down. And that was something we struggled with a lot before our kids were in recovery, early recovery, later recovery, you know, all of that, right? And that's definitely, that's such a personal thing. Boundary, honestly, you know, and, and what does that entail for everybody's going to be different? And, and I know that for us personally, that was something that we had to look at, you know, of Oh gosh, you know How do we support when things seem like they're going pretty well? Like an early recovery, you know, where and so that was constantly the question we asked, like, what are we willing to support as far as, for example, a car, right? I've been working so hard everywhere else, you know, but they can't afford this car and can we do that? And so in our personal family, you know, we were always okay with that. Was supporting with a car for example insurance and everything else they had to pay for gas, but we would support on Obtaining a car or you know, letting them have a car as long as they were healthy This is not while they're using I assume. Oh, no. No, no as long as they were healthy Yeah, as long as they were healthy. Yeah, it was a tough tough one because I don't know about you, but that was the probably the biggest issue when things are really out of control. Well, you know, they take away the car, then, you know, who's driving where and all of that. And you know, boy, I can, the fights that my husband and I would have around this issue, it was brutal. Yeah. And there's so many layers. Oh, there's so many layers, so many layers. I see another common one is, what do I do if this is first, maybe if you have a teenager at home, if they don't come home on time, then what do we do? And at one point we ended up, you know, saying the doors are going to lock at this time, but then you think, okay, but if I do that, then I'm kind of putting them back out there with the wrong people. So it's very tricky because you might have a boundary or you might have a limit. But then that limit could potentially put them in a position of higher risk or whatever. So I think what I didn't know about boundaries when we were in the thick of it is that you can get pretty creative. you can say, we will do this up until this point. And then at that point, things change. Or, you know, like if I think that you are going to be unsafe, or you're going to make someone else unsafe, I'm going to do what I need to do to make sure that, that everybody is safe. So I'm not necessarily stating. Black and white if you do this, then this is gonna happen, right? You're saying because then it's also It's like well this situation might not look great from the outside, but I know everybody is safe so then I don't have to it's not a Ultimatum, I guess is what I'm saying So I think that's really important that you can get creative and we've talked about that I think on episode 174 we talked about you guys had boundaries around hardware versus software in the house You I didn't really have a hard time with the car. For me, the car was a hard no, like not in my wildest, wildest dreams would I have ever allowed that kid behind the wheel of a car under, you know, that I would have provided. Now I'm sure he drove other people's cars and I couldn't control that. And other people have other things, right? So Right. They're personal. Very personal. It's very personal. So even the even the practical boundaries Can get very confusing and we're going to talk about one way to help with that in a couple of minutes But I think when you're thinking about practical boundaries, it's really important to know this is something that you are communicating as a way to protect yourself and as a way to preserve your own sanity and your own health and wellness. It is not to control the other person and what they're doing, which is very difficult because that's how we're used to thinking. We are always used to thinking about the other person first, right? And then how am I going to control that? And so we all know we cannot control somebody else. That's just. Not possible. So you can let that go. The staying out was, uh, a big one because my son was never home. I know some people have kids who are like in their room and they will never come out. I had the opposite. I had the kid who was never home. So we had, yeah, we had more boundaries around, you know, Like, I can't sleep at night, so I'm going to lock the door, or, uh, you know, if you get arrested, we are not going to be providing an attorney. So those are what we're talking about, the practical boundaries. Personal boundaries are more around things like not trying to control the outcome of what's going to happen, really focusing on the present. Not trying to. Change somebody, uh, not trying to, you know, my son had the, the saggy pants with the belt low, you know, whereas boxers are hanging out and just, I mean, It was just torture to see this going on. The, because it was kind of that gang style thing. And then there's a whole dialect that goes along with that, that I'm sure a lot of people are nodding their head to. And I tried so hard to control what he looked like and you need a haircut. And I know a lot of people deal with tattoos and tattoos are such a big thing in so many families, not just your family, but so many families. And those are the things that we have to let go of. It is. Not, not important. And we had a great conversation last night in our session too about what are the things that are worth engaging in and really being strong about a boundary in and what are the things that we just are trying to control because we're just trying to control them. It was a really good exercise to go through. You know, we were talking about the hula hoop and this is, this is the exact conversation, right? About what's in my hula hoop and things like the hair and the tattoos and the clothes and the weird language and that kind of stuff. To me, it's not worth me reaching into someone else's hula hoop and trying to control that. Safety is. Right. And we, we had this conversation as well, where I said, you know, at one point I did have to fully jump into my son's hula hoop and Yank him to safety, a hundred percent, and I would do it again. And, and it was very difficult and he hated me for a long time for that and made that very clear to me that I was not his favorite person for doing that. And today says it saved his life. So those are the, the personal boundaries where we have to control our thoughts, our, you know, statements, how we're communicating with people. And it's, I mean, if the practical ones are hard, the personal ones are equally as hard because Oh. Or harder. Or harder because we tend to go on autopilot, like I've always been an anxious person and now I'm going to project all of that anxiety on my kiddo and, and to learn how to not do that is so hard. I want to bring up to The way your teenager or your young adult maybe interacts with you in your home. That was a really big one for us because as you can imagine when your kiddos using substances, you know, they're, they, they're hard to be around. They can be very angry. They're dealing with their own mental health. Crisis as well and, you know, they could be yelling at you and saying a lot of derogatory things and, you know, we've often heard, you know, parents in our community also say, Oh yeah, they're yelling at me or there's, you know, and all of that. not realize that you could actually say to them, you know, I get you're angry and, you know, I'm not okay with you yelling at me right now. It's making me feel anxious myself or scared or whatever that is. And I think it's really important to bring that up. And that was something I didn't do. back then. However, over the years, I've learned to hold a really strong boundary around that. And that's even been on the phone. You know, if I've gotten a call where, you know, I, I know my daughter's okay with me sharing this, that she was really upset. She was in early recovery and she was dealing with a really, you know, Something that was just really upsetting to her and I remember really well saying this, this is crossing the boundary for me. And I said, or I said, I, I'm sorry you're feeling so upset, but I just have to get off the phone right now. This is really upsetting to me. And let's talk when you feel calm. And boy, I hung up that phone and it, I did feel really bad because I thought as a, as her mom, you know, I should be there for her. And then afterwards I thought, no, that was right. You know, I modeled for her that it was okay to not have someone, she wasn't yelling at me per se. She was just yelling because she was upset. But it was upsetting for me and I was really glad afterwards to, that I did what I did because I think it modeled, you know, that, hey, you know, I, I get it. There are times when we can be upset and you could even ask permission for that. Can I just Just have a moment to scream and yell right now. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And she was like, okay. I love that. Hung up the phone and, you know, and our next conversation was really beautiful and she was able to actually resolve it. I think that maybe because I said that she was able to resolve it too on her own and anyway, you just never know. You never know and it's important. I think it's what you said about you told her why? So you weren't just saying I don't want to have this conversation right now. You need to stop yelling whatever you said This is causing a lot of anxiety in me. And I think that's an important part of all of this with our personal boundaries is don't make it a mystery to the other person, why you're doing what you're doing, right? Don't, don't make them play, you know, mental gymnast. Like, why is my mom saying that? Or why is my dad doing that? It's really important. Like you said, for the modeling part of that, to tell them. I get so anxious when I hear you do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or whatever. That's why I don't engage in these conversations or that's why I leave the house at seven o'clock in the morning, because it causes me so much anxiety to see you asleep when I know you're supposed to be on your way to your brand new job. So I'm going to remove myself because it's not my job to get you up. Right? So. Communicating why we're doing these things is really important. And I know that was a little bit of a newsflash for me. I didn't do that at first. I was sort of operating in my own bubble and I thought I'm just going to do, I'm just going to do my thing and I'm going to take care of myself. And it was really not helpful to anyone else because they didn't understand why I was operating in the way that I was. So if you can communicate that in some way, and sometimes a written communication is a really beautiful way to do that. Mm hmm. Because if you are conflict avoidant and you get, like me, all like flustered and words don't come out of my mouth well when I'm in that situation, but I can write down how I'm feeling so much better and then hand that to somebody or text it to somebody. And I've even gone so far as to say, I wish that I could sit down and have a conversation with you about this. I'm just not. able to right now. And so I'm writing this to you because it matters to me and I care about you and I want you to understand why I'm doing the things I'm doing. And maybe someday I'm going to be able to gather myself and compose myself and have a conversation, but right now I just can't. So I love that. Yeah. So that's boundaries. I mean, we could talk for days and days and days about boundaries. But that's, those are the things that we wanted to communicate, just not trying to control the outcome, letting go of those things and at the same time, really protect yourself and your own well being through practical boundaries and personal boundaries. And if you have not listened to episode two, two 45 with Nancy Landrum. Run, don't walk. That's such a good one. Listen to that episode. I know people have emailed me and said, I've listened to it three times, but Nancy is a pro at boundaries. She wrote a book called Pungent Boundaries because it does stink to kind of have to like, Give up control and take control at the same time. It gets confusing. So episode two 45, super, super impactful. And I think you'll get a lot out of it if you're struggling with boundaries. So that leads us to the third thing in the three things podcast, which is one of our favorites. And it's coaching, which might sound kind of silly, but we get this question all the time. You get it a lot because you do our new member welcome calls. So if you join the stream community, you get a free call with Kathy to kind of orient you to our. our system, our environment, our community, and get pointed in the right direction. And you said to me, Brenda, this comes up all the time, which is why it made it in the, the three things podcast episode. So tell me about coaching. Why are people confused about it? Yeah. Well, I think they just, you know, it's, it's interesting cause I'll say, oh, you know, it'd be so great if you had a parent coach, you know, this is, you know, during this time and I was saying that for so long and then realizing, you know, someone, you know, were you getting the blank stare? Yeah. And then I get enough people say, what exactly is coaching, you know, and how is that different than having a therapist? Thanks. And, you know, really coaching is exactly, if you really think about it what is a coach, right? What is a coach? When you're on a baseball team or a soccer team, right, you, you're just learning how to play soccer, for example, right? So you have a coach and that coach is going to tell you how to, you know, kick the ball, how to dribble, how to do all the little tools that you will need. So that when you go to play the game of soccer, you will know how to be successful at it. Right? And you aren't going to be successful all the time. Right? That's why you have a coach. And the coach is going to say, that's great. You did a great job here. Let's tweak this. This exercise a little bit, so you know, you're better at this and your touches are softer or whatever. And so really a coach, uh, when we talk about coaching a parent coach for someone who's dealing with a kid who's got mental health issues and substance use issues is really someone that's gonna guide you in craft and ITC tools, right. And, and your own self-care practice. And so they're gonna talk to you about. Okay. What do you do? Well, what, what do you need help on? And they're going to share tools. They're going to talk to you about what a boundary is and help you actually create your boundaries. If you want. We have coaches in our community, which I love our coaches. They're amazing. Honestly, we've got the best coaches we do. We have a coach. That's so great. That actually did. a kind of like a script because this mom was so unsure on what to say and what to do. And I love this because she was telling me about this. And actually this is Dina, Dina Canazaro. She's one of our coaches. She's been on an episode. And I love that Dina did this because when I was, my husband and I were going through struggles with our daughter and I remember there was this time that, you know, we didn't know what to do or what to say. And so we actually hired someone who is. I call her our coach. She's also a therapist, but she's amazing. She was on an episode of HopeStream. Yes. Episode 223. Listen to that one if you're wondering about coaching. Mary Crocker Cook. Yeah. Mary Crocker Cook. And I remember talking to Mary and saying, okay, we're getting texts. We don't know how to respond to them. And so she would say, okay, This is what you're going to do. And it was really beautiful and I really credit learning about that learning what to do. I remember, you know, this was in the early days of, you know, how do we get together? And she's like, okay, you're just going to go and meet with her and don't talk about treatment. Don't talk about substances. Just be with her. All you're doing right now is building a bridge of trust. And so that when she's ready, you know, she will go out and surprise. It didn't happen after the first time or the second time probably took five visits, long drives. And, but that was just worth its weight in gold. That was a great, great coaching that I got. It's really true. And I think another important thing about having a coach is that they are not in crisis. So the example I give is. For those of you who have given birth. When you go to the hospital, when you're going to have a baby and you are out of your mind in pain, right? Or anxiety or whatever it is, all the stuff. And then this like really nice nurse walks in and she's so calm and she's like, hi, sweetheart, you're going to have a baby today. And They're, they're not freaking out, they're not anxious, they're not in pain. And so it's the same thing where you have somebody by your side who is saying, Hey sweetheart, it's okay. It's okay that you don't know how to set this boundary. I'm going to help you with it. I'm not in crisis. My kid is not. Doing all of these things, but I know what that's like because I've been there before and I would say that if you're going to Engage with a coach my recommendation would be make sure they've been through it Because there's a different level of understanding if you've been through having a child with substance use and mental health issues Then if you were talking to somebody who didn't not that they can't be helpful But we all know what it's like at three o'clock in the morning, right? when Hell's breaking loose. And if you have not stood there in those shoes, I think it's hard to understand, but that person is there for you. You know, not on fire, not in a state of crisis. They're very calm. They can see things. And, and we have a coaching episode playlist. So if you go to the podcast page, you go to hopestreamcommunity. org, click on podcast, then when you scroll down, you'll see a button to go to the playlist and we have one for all of our coaching episodes, so you can hear a little bit of what that's like where I'm coaching some of our members, but I can see things that they cannot see. And, and so often they'll talk and talk and talk and then I'll say, okay, so what I see here is, and I'll say, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh, wow, you know what? You're right. But I never saw that because I'm coming at it from such a different place. Right. So it's really valuable to have that. And, and also because you are probably making some pretty big decisions. If you're listening to this podcast and if you're doing you're making big decisions And you want to have somebody very stable and very calm by your side Not that they're gonna make that decision for you, but that you can bounce some things off of how does this sound? How does that sound? What would be the impact of this? Right? Right. Super super helpful. So we love having That coach model because it just helps regulate, right? Like everything kind of comes down a notch because you know, you've got that person to reach out to. We also absolutely recommend that you have a therapist. It's so important because your coach is not doing therapy and your therapist is typically not doing coaching. They may be. There are some, especially in the craft world and in the imitation to change world, there could be a therapist who also is going to help you make some of those action steps. But your coach is really there to say, what is going on this week? What are we going to do? How are we going to tweak this boundary a little bit? How are you doing with your self care? Whereas your therapist is doing a little bit more of the deeper work as why does this activate you so much? Why does this trigger you so much? What, what was going on with your mom that made you in your attachment style or whatever? None of that's going to be going on in coaching. Right. It's right. Much more practical and like action oriented. And both are extremely important and valuable. Absolutely. I just, I love that you said it's action oriented. You know, that, that is, that's so key, right? Because ultimately, you know, we do want to help our families. We want to help ourselves and you know, it is so great. Well as we know, craft tools can be used across all relationships, you know, and so a coach can help you get just comfortable with it. We hear parents often say, Oh my gosh, there's so many things. I don't even know what to say. And I forget them all, you know? And so that's why Coach is great. Work on that one tool at a time, you know, or whatever that is. You'll remember it. I promise. Well, it's hard when you have a child who's struggling and potentially in danger. Of course, you want to know all the things all at once, give it to me all in a firehose because I need to solve this problem now. Right? So, I think it's helpful to take a step back. Obviously, if there's an imminent danger and you're, you are in a crisis situation, that is different than if. Things are just like, oof, this is rough and we're not getting along and we're not communicating and I know they're using substances and I know it's Negatively impacting their life. That's different than where you and I eventually ended up Which was in the next 24 hours this child has got to get somewhere safe Right, and if you're there then that's that's also something that a coach is going to be helpful for To help ground you and get you through those difficult conversations and those difficult moments, and then be there with you on the other side of that. So a coach can be used not only in times of crisis, right. You know, obviously, yeah, there are times, but. We have found it very helpful too, to have a coach while your child's in treatment. Absolutely. And even afterwards, right? I mean, oftentimes, I know for me personally, change didn't really happen for me until after my kids were in treatment and really after they were out of treatment. And I think that it's just as important to know what to say, how to communicate with them. You know, it'll be, it'll look different for sure. But it's still very helpful and, you know, and, and anyway, you'll eventually learn to be a pro at it. I think that, you know, he'll kind of go through all the different stages and, and the really awesome thing is we've seen several of the moms from the stream come through and fall so in love with the craft tools and invitation to change tools that they then went and got certified in those modalities. And now they are doing coaching with people, which is awesome. Amazing and awesome. Absolutely. You can really gain a lot from it and then also give back. So we love seeing that, but anything else come to mind? Gosh, I think we did a pretty good job. Change the system one drop at a time, work on your boundaries. One at a time and get a coach. Get a coach. Because it's so helpful. All right. Well, thanks. I'll talk to you soon Yeah, it was great chatting with you Brenda. You too. See you around. Okay, my friend if you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode Just go to hope stream community org and click on podcast. That'll take you to all things podcast related including the full library and a search feature if you're looking for something specific, and also playlists where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft, recovery stories, solo episodes, siblings. We even have a start here playlist if you're new. Those are super helpful, so be sure to check them out. I also want to let you know about a free ebook you can download if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance misuse. The book is called Worried Sick. A compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults misusing drugs and alcohol, and it'll introduce you to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child. versus distance and let them hit rock bottom. It is a game changer. It's totally free. Just go to hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried to download that. You are amazing. You are such a rock star, a super elite level parent. It's truly an honor to be here with you. And please know you are not doing this alone. You've got this tribe and you will be Okay, you'll make it through this season and when you do, you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible. I'm sending all my love and might and I'll meet you right back here next week.