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Wandering Spark: From Youth Rebel to Law School and Ultra Athlete, with Kyle Robinson

• Brenda Zane, Kyle Robinson • Season 5 • Episode 247

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

Kyle Robinson first represented someone in court at the age of 18 years old. He was representing himself, defending against charges of assault, disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace – for a fight that hadn’t even happened. If that’s not foreshadowing I don’t know what is.

Kyle had certainly been in a few fights before this particular arrest. The physical and emotional abuse he’d endured from his stepfather since the age of four had driven him to rebellion, fighting, misusing substances, and a 1.0 high school GPA. But he had checked himself into rehab at the age of 17, and was trying his best to stay out of trouble as a legal adult.

Kyle’s courtroom defense was successful. The acquittal made him feel as though he was putting himself on the right track. But when he was accepted to college against all odds, everything changed again.

In this recovery episode, Kyle shares the journey laid out in his new memoir, “Wandering Spark.” You’ll hear how he went from a jail cell to law school, how writing the book made him come to terms with the reasons he had used substances in the first place and the incredible importance of adults who take the time to encourage young people who are struggling. This episode is another great reminder that there is always hope!

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Kyle:

I never thought about myself as like a victim of like child abuse or you know a very traumatic or toxic like home life. But then once I started writing pen to paper, that's when I was like, oh my gosh, like this is crazy. This is actually what happened to me. The drugs and things didn't start until I was actually the summer going into high school after eighth grade. And that was just an outlet that I needed. I just wanted to get away from what was going on at home.

Brenda:

Welcome to Hope Stream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane, your host. and a fellow parent whose child struggled. I'm so glad you're here. Take a deep breath and know you're not doing this alone anymore. Hi friend, thanks for hanging out with me today. This is such a safe space for you to connect and get plugged into some really great conversations and resources. And of course, a really great place to pick up some hope if you're in a difficult place right now. And if you're in a good place and things are pretty calm, that's amazing too. That's thankfully where I am today. Everyone in my family is healthy and I'm able to exist in a fairly stable and regulated state. I don't take that for granted, as you can imagine, and it's worth noting that 10 years ago, no one could have told me that I would be here. With any degree of certainty that I would be looking forward to the holidays instead of dreading what might happen And they definitely Would not have been able to convince me that things were going to turn out Okay, so wherever you are right now in this moment. No, it's going to change No, it's not permanent and that today is just today You know more than you did yesterday and tomorrow you're going to be in a different place with new information and new perspective You Part of that new perspective will come from Kyle Robinson's story, which you are about to hear. When I learned about Kyle and the book he wrote called Wandering Spark, I realized it would make for a great recovery episode. I love recovery episodes because they remind us of the impermanence of suffering. They also allow you to peek into the mind of someone who may be the future young person you're parenting today. Someone who struggled with similar issues and has made it through to the other side. Kyle received a BA in Political Science from Kenton State University and his JD from Western Michigan Law School. He was named a finalist for Best Attorney in an Industry Practice by the New York Enterprise Report. He's licensed to practice law in New York. And currently lives in Cleveland, Ohio with his dog Booker. Kyle's story is interesting right from the get go because when he started writing Wandering Spark, he hadn't planned to write at all about his childhood and how it impacted him from an emotional and behavioral standpoint. He didn't even recognize that what he endured as a child set him up perfectly for becoming addicted to drugs and alcohol. You are going to hear how Kyle went from graduating with a 1. 0 grade point average after spending 6 years in high school to representing himself in court at the age of 19, the life changing impact of one person who believed in him, and how after so many failures and second chances, He also started believing in himself. Kyle's story is truly remarkable and he shares the form of therapy that ultimately changed things for him and helped him process through his belief that he was just a bad person. I can't wait for you to hear from this highly successful lawyer and ultra athlete, Kyle Robinson. Enjoy. Kyle, welcome to Hope Stream Podcast. I am so glad that you reached out, uh, your book, Wandering Spark. I was just telling you, I didn't have a chance to read the whole book. I read the first few pages and I was already so impacted by your writing and your words. And so just so glad to have you here. Thanks for joining me.

Kyle:

Yeah, man. I really appreciate you having me today. So thanks so much for having me join you.

Brenda:

Yeah, so we were talking a little bit about writing a book, which is a lot. What got you to the point where you said, I am going to write a memoir?

Kyle:

I had a lot of struggles growing up and I eventually overcame them. And so I wanted to memorialize it in a book. And there was something always, you know, tugging at me that I always wanted to write a book and share my story and hopefully to help others. And that. Once it came down to doing it, I was all right, I've been on enough adventures. I've been through enough. It's it's either now or never is what I told myself. And then I just had to sit down and set up a regimen to actually sit there and write it. So it's a lot easier to say, I'm going to write a book and then you actually sit down and write it. And then you get, then you're face to face with, Oh no, I got to actually write, you know, 60 to 70, 000 words. I, where's this all going to come from? And is it going to be helpful to anybody? Is it going to make any sense? So that's when it really starts to take off. Uh, no problem. The idea of writing a book sounds a lot better than actually sitting down and doing it.

Brenda:

I agree. I agree. I've, I've had the idea. I've tried to start many times. So I'm I'm in awe that you actually did it, especially knowing just a fraction of your story in your childhood. And I want to get into that, that it had to have also been an experience writing all of these. memories and and things about your life that I don't know had you thought about a lot of them. I mean it had to have just brought up a lot of Maybe you could call that, call it trauma, like re traumatizing yourself. What was, what was that like?

Kyle:

Well, when I first started writing the book I started writing it because I'm a big trail runner and I went out on an adventure. I had like a conversion van. I was just going to write about my adventures and like trail running and like my life about, you know, in high school, I struggled in high school, you know, drugs and alcohol. I went to drug rehab when I was a teenager and I was going to write about overcoming that and, you know. So. Yeah. Eventually going to law school, things like that. But then once I started writing like pen to paper, I started to write about my childhood and how I was brought up. And I never thought about myself as like a victim of like child abuse or, you know, a very traumatic or toxic like home life. But then once I started writing pen to paper, that's when I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is crazy. This is actually what happened to me. And it's, and it was very, I mean, I was crying and stuff when I first started writing this, but I, that's the first time I came face to face with what really happened to me when I was younger. And it was actually really good because I was able to do something about it at that moment. You know what I mean? I was able to start healing the process. So when I first started writing the book, I wasn't even going to put anything about my childhood or anything like that in there at all. I was just going to write about like my adventures and just, you know, overcoming a couple obstacles. And then once I started writing that, I just like, I don't know. It was a big watershed moment for me just to put that in paper and see that. And then it actually made a lot of sense because I was able to say, Oh, this is why I reacted this way. This is why, you know, I went down this road and things like that. And I was actually blaming myself for a lot of these things, like going down the wrong road, you know And, and I'm not that I'm blaming somebody else or, but this happened to me and this is the reason why I did this. But before I started writing this down and putting all this down there, it just made more sense to me. It was like, oh, this is why I was doing this instead of beating myself up like, oh, you're not a good person. You're just that kind of person that does this. It all started making sense on why I was doing this, why I was doing that. And like even trying to achieve things, I was just trying to prove to myself that and prove to others that I was worth, you know, something in my life that I was worth this. So that's really what it. came down to that I was trying to prove something. And I don't know, it was, uh, that was really the driving force behind it all.

Brenda:

Incredible. Well, why don't you give us, I know, obviously there's a whole book. So for listeners, you're going to have to read the book cause we don't have time to go through the whole story, but I would love for you to give us kind of the podcast version of what did happen to you, what did happen to you so that we can visit. I think there's just so much, uh, rich. learning in this, especially when you go back to somebody's childhood take us through your, your experience.

Kyle:

Sure. I'll just kind of start at the beginning and feel free to cut me off if I go on too long or if you have any questions. No, I

Brenda:

will. I will ask lots of questions. Trust me.

Kyle:

Sure. So when I was only four years old, my mom was recently divorced and we were living in Kent, Ohio, and it was me at four years old and my older brother, six years old, and my little sister, three years old. And one day I was playing upstairs and, uh, I heard the door ring and this usually doesn't happen at our house. So I run down the stairs, all excited. As I get to the bottom of the stairs, standing before me was like this six foot three tall man with like a big brown beard and bifocal glasses. And it's a little four year old. I'm just stunned. I'm just looking at him. And my mom, who had answered the door, went to go get a glass of water or something like that. And so it's just me and this intimidating figure. And I greeted him like how any four year old might greet him. I just punched him in the leg and I giggle it a little bit. And what this man did, he made a fist too and punched little four year old Kyle right in the stomach back. And I keeled over, I couldn't scream out because I couldn't breathe. You know, tears were running down my face and this man just stood there. He didn't try to comfort me, didn't try to like take care of me. He just walked around me and into the kitchen. I just scampered upstairs. And that was my first meeting with the man who would eventually become my stepfather, Ben, or my sister and I would call him Triple B, Big Bad Ben. And that's kind of how my life started, uh, going on. Starting when I was four years old. And you might say, you know, did your mom do anything about this? You know, did your mom try to stop this or anything like that? Well, that first incident, she wasn't around, but obviously it didn't stop there. But my mom kind of rationalized in her head that it wasn't that bad. And, uh, you know, boys will be boys and she didn't want to have a second failed marriage on her hands. And so she's kind of rationalized that it was very important for us to have a father in our lives. So she was not going to, she was just going to force this down our throats. And what made it worse is like, she told us like, this is your father. You have to call him dad. You have to tell him, you know, you know, you love him. And as I got older, you know, in high school, I'm not going to get into graphic details of, you know, things that happen, you know, physical abuse or anything like that, but I started to rebel out a lot, specifically in high school. I started getting in fights a lot. I started, you know, getting into drugs and alcohol, started failing classes, started failing, you know. And it was just helpless. And I always thought this whole time that I was to blame that I was just a, a bad kid, you know, cause that's what I was told. That's what kind of like my mom was telling me that I was doing things wrong. And then I had triple B who was there, who was not a good person at all. So I was just looking for an outlet, just trying to scream out. So I just kind of got involved with the bad crowd, so to speak, and just started, you know, Doing the drugs, getting the drinking, you know, what, whatever it is. And I'm, you know, 15 or 16 at this time. And eventually I get expelled from school and so I get expelled from school. So I have to repeat another year of high school over again. And when I come back from my other year of high school, things don't change. I Stay with the same sort of crowd. I'm doing all these drugs and things like that. Eventually I get a test back In high school that I failed and i'm so frustrated with myself. I'm a 17 years old going 19 And I i'm thinking to myself why why is this happening to me? Why why do I keep failing getting kicked out of school? All my friends are doing somewhat similar situation of what I am, but they're not It's not having an impact on their lives, not getting kicked out of school, they're not getting any advice, they're not getting arrested like I am. I didn't realize at the point, at the time, they didn't have the same home life that I had. And so, it was really impacting me a lot. So, when I, after I failed the first time, or got expelled the first time, I came back, I failed that test, and I was so frustrated with myself, because I knew if I applied myself, or if I wasn't, you know, getting high all the time, I'd be able to do Well, on this test, so what I decided to do as a 17 year old boy, I skipped class after I failed that test and went and tried to turn myself into drug rehab as a 17 year old kid. But when I arrived there, I realized you just can't say, Hey, here I am. As a, you know, as a minor, you have to either be court ordered or you have to have your parents sign you in. And so it just so happened, and I knew this, my mom, it was in a hospital, and the hospital had a drug rehab wing. And then my mom actually worked in the hospital, so they called her down, and she signed me into drug rehab when I was 17 years old. And she was very relieved that this was happening because she was searching for answers too, and she was, there was no way she was going to blame, you know, my stepfather or anything like that. So she thought this was the solution, you know, and it actually was good for a while because It was safe because I was away from my friends. I was away from all those influences. And I was away from, you know, Triple B. So it was actually good for me just to get away from all of that and just to take a step. But because I had to Go to drug rehab. Uh, I just failed another year of high school. So now after I get out of drug rehab, I'm in my sixth year of high school, but two amazing things happened to me on my sixth year of sixth year of high school. One is they just kind of threw me an in school suspension. And what that is in high school, you just sit in a room. You're not allowed to sleep. You're not allowed to talk. You just sit in one classroom. You don't change classrooms and just bring all your homework in there. And in that classroom was a teacher and his name was Mr. Brady, and you're actually allowed to talk to him about schoolwork or what have you. So I took full advantage of that. And I started asking him questions about my schoolwork and things like that. And Mr. Brady was one of the first male role models. So actually took me inside and told me I was smart. And he told me, you know, he believed in me and no joke. This is like. Amazing to me because no man has ever told this to me that I'm worth something, you know, I'm always been called names for my stepfather any of my friends I not good friends because I didn't think I deserved good friends I thought so I thought it was normal for be called loser all the time or worthless and things like that And so this was actually Huge thing for me, for Mr. Brady to tell me that, you know, you're hanging around the bad crowd, you could actually do something with your life if you tried. And not that I did anything at that moment, because I was just a kid at that moment, but a seed was planted in me, like, I knew it was like, this is amazing. And I knew at that moment, this is amazing. I, I thought all men were like my stepfather. I really did. I thought, like, And I'm not, there's no joke. I really thought that that's the way all men were. And so it was like very enlightening to me to see this man tell me that, be kind to me and tell me that I'm worth, and so that was really an amazing thing to me. And the second amazing thing to me, what happened is, now, uh, I'm in my sixth year of high school after Mr. Brady, when I'm not messing around, I'm, uh, I'm not a minor anymore, I'm 18 years old, so I can't get in any trouble, and I should preface this before, when I was a minor, I got arrested for underage drinking, you know, fighting, arrest, you know, hit and skip, you know, all kinds of trouble, and so now that I was 18, 19 years old, I could not get in any more trouble because I was scared to death of actually going to the, you know, Prison or jail, real jail. And so I try to stay on the straight and narrow. And, but one day this kid wanted to fight me and I did not want to fight him because I was scared to death of a, I knew he could beat me up. I meant to, I did not want to get in any trouble. So to make the story real quick, real short, he tried to fight me and I did not want to do, I just tried to get away from him before I knew it. There's a big crowd around us in high school, just screaming, fight, fight, fight, before I knew it, uh, for any punches were. I was grabbed out of the crowd and arrested by a police officer for assault, disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, even though I didn't do anything wrong. And so I have to go to court for this and I want to, and I didn't even do anything wrong this time. And but my mom doesn't believe me so she will not give me a lawyer or anything like that. So what I decided to do is, I decided to represent myself. And so, I go to court the one day, and the, you know, there's the prosecutor, the judge, the arresting officer, and me in the courtroom, and courts, and my mom is actually there, but she's, you know, sitting behind me, and so it's just me at the table by myself. And so, the court starts, and the prosecutor starts asking, uh, The arresting officer questions. Do you see the person who was involved in this altercation? And the arresting officer points me out and prosecutor asks him a few more questions, then it's my turn. And the judge goes, you know, Kyle, do you want to ask the office arresting officer questions? You know, in my head, I'm very confident. I'm like, yes, hell yeah. I want to ask some questions. But then once I start speaking, you know, my voice is shaking. I'm scared, but I proceed. Anyhow, I first started asking the officer, I go, well, where were you when you first I saw this alleged incident. He said, Oh, I was sitting in my police cruiser and I go, how far away was your police cruiser from, you know, this alleged incident? He goes, Oh, about 150 yards. And I go, what did you see? He goes, well, I saw about 150 kids surrounding you and this other gentleman and this altercation assaulting each other. And I told him, so you're telling me from 150 yards away, sitting in your police cruiser through 150 kids, you saw, actually saw me assault somebody. That's crazy. And he goes, well, I can't say for certain, you know, a hundred percent. And that was it. The judge, you know, found me not guilty. The case was dismissed. And I was just so happy because the seed that Mr. Brady planted in me, it started growing. It was like, if I believe in myself and really try, you know, and do something good things can happen. So that's what happened when I, in my sixth year of high school, I eventually graduated high school with a 1. 046 GPA and a 3. 0 GPA. Three. I think my class rank was around 346 out of 349. So college was not on the horizon for me whatsoever. So that, that was my high school career in a nutshell, real quick.

Brenda:

Oh, wow. This is so fascinating. So for the parents out there who have kids with the, you know, 1. 0 grade point average right now, don't lose hope because Kyle's a very successful person, but that's incredible. I'd love to go back. So, when you were so young and you're experiencing this really unhealthy and abusive dynamic in your home, you were so young, obviously, when it started, but as you were getting older, were you, how were you coping with that? in the home. Cause you know, I'm, I'm guessing you said you kind of got into drugs and alcohol when you were in high school, but what, how are you coping during that time when you were so young in an abusive household?

Kyle:

Well, I, like I said, I didn't know it was an abusive foster. I thought this was normal. So I, yeah, I did try to like, you know, I didn't want to hang out with him or like being like, but you know, as a little kid, you do try to like get them to love you or try to do things with you, but. I didn't know. I didn't know it was abuse. I thought this was normal. I thought this way everybody lived. And so I just went on life as normal. And I did do the normal things kids do. I did play baseball. I did go to Cub Scouts, you know, things like that. And I was always just in fear of him, of fear of him snapping or things like that. And so there was no real coping mechanism. I was just, you know, And this was a guy I was looking on my computer in the middle of the night. He was a guy from the state of California, and this guy was a guy from the state of Illinois, uh, a natural beauty life. He's a guy who's kind of a little successful at the time. And he's a guy that you would think as an adult, you know, Scared like all the time and so worried and then as I get an adult, you know I'm just catastrophizer and things like think the worst is always gonna happen and just coping So as a little kid, I didn't know what was going on And so I did luckily I did have my brother and my sister and so I just kind of hung out with them though It's because they were going through similar situations. I was going in and so I just didn't understand Uh, I think as a little kid, I just didn't understand what was going on and I thought it was normal until you didn't realize until you get older really what's going on. But again, even when I was in high school, some, the drugs and things didn't start until I was actually the summer going into high school after eighth grade. And that, that was just an outlet that I needed. I just, Wanted to get away from what was going on at home and anything to get away from anything to distract me What was going on at home and things like that? And also I think part of it too doing all that like the fighting and things like that was just a call for help That was me screaming out because I didn't know how else to do that Like I didn't know how to ask for help at all Cause there's no one, no one, no one ever asked me, how are you doing? What's going on? Like, seriously asked me what was going on. Cause it was always blaming me. He thought, I always thought I was the one who was wrong. I thought I was the one doing wrong. And whenever, you know, when I was a kid and, you know, triple B would, you know, hit us and things like that. I thought it. I was doing something wrong. I didn't think like, you know, he was like going crazy. I thought I was doing something wrong. So I better like stop doing that. And so what, you know, started with the drugs and alcohol, that was just me trying to get out of the house and do something that was not there and just find an escape, anything to what I was feeling at that moment.

Brenda:

I have been there and I want you to know there's hope. This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents. We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family. So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments. We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom. We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you. Head over to HopeStreamCommunity. org to tap into all of our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community. Remember, you're not alone in this. We're doing it together. Now let's get back to the conversation. Did your mom know what was going on when you started using substances, or was she not really aware? I imagine she had her own struggles with this whole situation, but what was going on? What were the dynamics with your mom during all of this?

Kyle:

No, she had no idea. I don't believe so. I don't think she did really have a, like, how how deep I was in on it because when I went to drug rehab as a 17 year old, what they made me do was you're supposed to tell your, you know, your guardian, your parent, all the drugs that you've done. And so I was scared to death of doing this cause I didn't want her to think less of me. But what I did is I wrote it all down. And so I gave her that piece of paper and like she read it and I think, you know, she just started crying. So I think she was very surprised because my mom was like, she doesn't know anything about drugs or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so she didn't realize what was going on. She doesn't even really drink. She didn't understand the signs. And so, and also I was high and I would have denied it anyhow, and I don't think anything would have happened, you know, beyond that. So, no, she had no, no idea what was going on. Like she never pushed me to go to drug rehab or anything like that. It was me who like decided to turn myself in.

Brenda:

That is so, that's the first time I've ever heard that kind of story where you decided, I'm going to correct the situation. I'm going to go to drug rehab, and then your mom actually had to come check you in. That is pretty unique. What was that experience like? Did you start getting some distance from, because you were obviously Now, away from the home and all the friends, did you start realizing at that point, like, Oh, maybe this is all connected. Or were you, were you still at that point just thinking, I'm just a bad kid and I'm doing drugs and I just need to stop doing the drugs. Was there any sort of like mental health component to that, that you were starting to realize what was really going on?

Kyle:

Not really, to be honest with you, I was scared to death of losing my friends. And so that's why I didn't, like, that's, as a kid, like, that's what I was so fearful of. And so I didn't want to stop doing the drugs because I thought if I did, I would lose all of my friends. Not only losing my friends, I thought I would have been an outcast, I would have been picked on from them, or beat up, or something like that. Like, as a kid, that's how I was rationalized. And I thought they were the cool kids, I thought I was the cool kid, if I wasn't doing it, I wasn't going to be cool.

Brenda:

So you eked your way through high school with a 1. 0 grade average, and then what comes after that? Because that It's not like you, you know, flew out of high school in four years with a 3. 8. Where, where was your head at when you finally did finish after six years? And then you had to look and say, Hmm, colleges are not beating down my door. I would imagine, uh, what, What happened from there?

Kyle:

Well, so right after, uh, high school, I got a job at one of those, like, uh, quick, quick lube oil change places. And I should tell you, Brenda, I don't know anything about cars, so if you ever take your car there, be wary, because I didn't know anything, and I worked there for a while. Not to take anything away from those guys. They do great work. I didn't know anything about it. But one day underneath the car, like, draining oil, and I'm thinking to myself, I want to do more with my life. I want to make a difference in my life. I was like, but what can I do? Can a person who takes six years to get out of high school go to college with a 1. 046? I had no idea, but I wanted to try. And so I didn't even take the ACT or SAT, obviously, because I was doing other things in high school. So out of the blue, I decided to take the ACT. And I did well enough to get into college and so I knew I had an opportunity and so yes, it was on a probationary period, you know, period and things like that, but I was like, okay, I have this opportunity. I'm going to take this seriously. And so I really stopped smoking the weed. I stopped drinking and I really buckled down and my first semester of college, I almost got a 4. 0. And so I was like, I was so elated. I was like, I knew it. So if I apply myself and I can do something, I can, you know. I'm not a moron. I'm not a loser. Just like, you know, triple B tells me my whole life, you know, maybe if I really try, I can do good things in my life. And so the seed that Mr. Brady planted me just started growing more. And so after I got, I did well that first semester, I decided, you know what, I did this well, I want to transfer to a better school or a different school. So I transferred schools. And when I transferred schools to a different school, I met a whole new group of friends and they weren't bad people, but they, they weren't good. They weren't bad. They just weren't good for me, meaning they just, they were at a high school for the first time. So they were starting experiments with drugs and alcohol and things like that. And so I kind of just got right back into it with them. And so I started getting on academic probation in my different, in the new college and things just started, but I rationalized it. This is how I rationalized it in my head. It was like, you know what? You're in college, so it's okay. You know, that's how I was rationalizing. So it's okay. Then one day. Uh, I think it was like my junior or senior year. We decided to go down to the bars drinking all day long. And so I drove down there. We're drinking all day long. We did something called power hour where you have to like take a shot or a drink every time the song changes or something like that. And so we're drinking. We're down at the bars for a couple hours and we decide, you know what, let's go back home. And change so we can go back out to the bars. So everybody piles in my Jeep, we're driving back home, as I'm taking a left onto my street, I kind of press on the gas, and I slam into a telephone pole. Everybody goes to the hospital. I total my Jeep. I get arrested for a DUI reckless driving and luckily everybody ended up Okay, you know nothing serious or anything like that. So I get arrested again, and I'm thinking to myself It's just like nothing's changed Kyle. Nothing has changed. You're still on this road You're still going down like this this path and so eventually I did graduate college And I think it was like a 2. 02 GPA and I, you know, nothing on horizon whatsoever, but I had a college degree. And so, and this whole time I'm trying to prove to my stepfather and my mom that I'm worth something, that I can do this. You know, every time I had a great accomplishment, like a graduate college and my stuff hitting care, you know what I mean? When I made a Dean's list hitting care and I started to come to realization, you know, I could, you know, Cure cancer and he wouldn't care at all. You know what I mean? It wouldn't make any difference. So now that I have a college degree with no prospects whatsoever, I decide to, in a sense, run away at this time I'm living in Ohio. I had an opportunity to go live in San Francisco, California, and I took that opportunity. So I went and lived out there and I was just bartending, you know, getting, kind of getting my life together, getting my finances together. And it was actually good because I was away from all of my, you know, Old friends, you know, and so I can focus on me and I was very away from triple B, but I think about what I want to do. And I remember that time back in high school when I represented myself. And I was like, you know, I actually did pretty well when I believed in myself, I can do good things. I was like, but can I actually be a lawyer in real life? And I wasn't sure. And so what I decided to do, I'm going to find out. Just like I did with college. And so I took the entrance exam to get into law school a few times. Eventually, I did well enough to get into law school, accredited law school in Michigan. And so I'm off to Michigan now after a couple years in San Francisco to go to law school. So now I'm in law school. And law school, I knew this is a way different, a different sort of beast than college and high school. You have to sit there and study. You've got to take it seriously. And I knew whoever I hung out with, that was going to dictate how well I was going to do. So I knew not to hang out with the partiers. I knew not to hang out with, you know, the drinkers. And so what I decided to do is I found the two smartest kids that I, that I knew in co in law school. And it's easy to find that they're always raising their hands. So I found those two kids and I said, we're going to be study partners. We're going to be, and I hung out with those two kids. All three years of law school. And I did not deviate to that. And they taught me how to study, you know, they taught me, you know, everything to do, like what to do in law school, how to be successful, how to create outlines. I actually got the certificate of merit in one of my classes. That's getting the highest grade out of anybody in law school. But before you graduate law school, you have to take an internship. And so I got an internship in New York City because I always wanted to live there. So now I'm in New York City and now I'm living life in New York City right now. And I just graduated law school. I'm working at this matrimonial law firm, which I hate every second of it. And so I start second guessing myself if I should, if I actually want to be a lawyer anymore, because I'm so miserable. These guys are like working like 70 hours a week and they're so unhappy. It was a divorced law firm and they're just. I thought I would like the drama. I hated it. I was starting to get panic attacks. I was just hating every second of it. And not only that, my panic attacks were being created, too, because I have to take the bar exam if I want to be a lawyer. But in order to take the bar exam, you have to pass something called a character and fitness examination, where they do this huge background check on you. You have to submit everything, like, all, everything you got arrested for. They would find out, you know, six years in high school, everything you've done wrong. And so what happens in, in New York City, you actually need to be interviewed to, uh, by a member of the bar in order to pass the character and fitness examination. So the day of the interview, I go there, there's hundreds of kids getting interviewed and they're taking the interviews, taking like five minutes. I sat in there for two hours waiting to get interviewed and I go, what's taking so long? And they go, we have a special prosecutor coming in here to question you. And so finally this woman shows up, she has this big file with all these red tags coming out. And I was like, Oh, here we go. And so she takes me to this other room and she starts going through my file and she goes, quite the file here. I was like, yeah, yeah, quite the file here. I was like, great. What is she going to talk about? She's going to talk about my hidden skip. She's going to talk about my DUI, like assault. Like what is she going to talk about? Finally, she pulls out this piece of paper and she starts questioning me about it. She goes, Oh, I see you got caught speeding in law school. I guess there's the last thing I got in trouble for, like by the law. And I was like, yeah, I got caught speeding. I was late to class or something like that. And she goes, well, how do I know you're not going to do this? You know, going forward, I go, you mean speeding? She goes, yeah. I go, well, we live in New York City. I don't even have a car. It's not even possible. She like got a little laugh about that. And then she goes, you know, keeps going through this. Doesn't ask me anything more about anything else. She just goes, are you going to be a good ethical attorney? I go, yes. Bam. Stamped. That was it. I was a licensed attorney in New York City and I was just, a big weight was lifted off my shoulders. And I was so happy that the belief in myself never stopped. And I just went through it and I was actually able to accomplish it. So I was very happy. You know, Triple B didn't care at all. What he did tell me was once I graduated law school, he told me I would have lost a bet. That's what, that was his congratulations to me.

Brenda:

Oh my gosh.

Kyle:

My mom is still married to this man to this day. So that's still going on.

Brenda:

And has she read your book?

Kyle:

She won't. And so my mom, no, so it's kind of, it's pretty difficult relationship. One real quick big thing happened to me after I graduate. I was a licensed attorney. I started applying to jobs, and I wasn't sure I wanted to be an attorney because I had such a terrible experience at that internship. So I got this job, so I started applying to jobs where you do need to be an attorney, just not practicing, and I got a job at this legal education company. And this amazing thing happening, the man who owned the company was a couple of years older than me. He kind of took me under his wing and started becoming my mentor. It wasn't like, Oh, I want to be your mentor, but he told me, you know, the right books to read, you know, starting to exercise and doing running and things like that. And just, he gave me a lot of autonomy to be myself and told me like he believed in me. And I grew so much those years I was working with him. I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for him. And we talk all the time. So I was so grateful for him in my life. And it was just, It was another great thing to have somebody it's, I can't stress this enough to have somebody who believes in you and just tell you, and then knows the tools and the resources to actually implement the belief and just help you out. And so that really changed my life. Immensely. It was like, had, had my belief in herself. And so after that, I was really finding my own, I was in New York city for five years and I really got into running like, uh, ultra running. So I started doing these 50 milers, a hundred miles. It was good mentally for me just to clear and like to, uh, get a reset. And so after five years in New York city, I. Not that I had enough of it, but I knew it was time for me to move on. So I moved back to Ohio and when I moved back to Ohio, I knew again, you know, it's who you hang out with is going to dictate what kind of person you're going to be. So I knew I just wanted to hang out with, you know, runners and good people. So I joined this running club and found all my best friends in this running club and we just hang out every day since. And, uh, that's kind of where we're at today. One other thing. I started going out on adventures on like these trail races out west and when I came back from the last trail race, this is like six or seven years ago, maybe eight years ago. I was like, Oh, you know what? I want to write a book. About my adventures, you know, about overcoming the odds is that's really what it was going to be a little bit about my running. I wasn't even going to say anything about, you know, triple B or anything in my life about how I was raised. And I was like, you know what? Let's start at the beginning. Let's start at the beginning. What is your first memory, Kyle? What is your first memory? So I started writing. My first memory is when I was four years old, when I first met triple B. And so I just started writing all of that. And like, it was just very healing. And we talked about it a little bit, like, cause I didn't realize until that moment. How I was raised and that it wasn't right now, I was able to do something about it. Now I was able to try to heal. Like now there was a reason why I was freaking out and rebelling out or trying to prove to other people of who I am and what I am. And so that's kind of a fast forward story of my life of where we're at today. And so that's kind of what, what happened. So I wanted to write the story too, or just to share my story and, you know, help others like listeners of parents. You know, I was that kid. You know, before, and so I just don't want to say there is hope

Brenda:

a couple of things really stood out as you were telling your story. One is the importance of having a positive influence in someone's life. So each of us, I think sometimes we feel a little helpless, like, well, what can I do? Right? Not just in my own kid's life, but in the world in general, let's just say there's a lot going on in the world. And I think what, what your story underscores is that. One positive influence who is connected to somebody in a personal way and saying, I believe in you, I see this in you can make a radical difference in someone's life. And I think that's important to highlight because when we feel overwhelmed and we feel like the world's problems are too much, whether it's a young person struggling, whether it's, you know, another family member, whatever. It just takes sometimes that conversation. And like you said, planting the seed like Mr. Brady did with you, like plant a seed and you never know where it's going to grow. And it took a while. It sounds like four years to grow. So it was underground for a little bit, which is something else that really came through for me. You went to treatment when you were 17, but then you sort of bumbled along still,

Kyle:

right?

Brenda:

Until it really, until you realize it's in my best interest to actually not do those things in my life. But you didn't go to rehab again. You didn't go to AA. You didn't do like the big things that I think parents often want to see our kids do. We're like, but we want to see them go to treatment. We want to see them do, do these things. And you did it just out of kind of an organic desire to be better is what it sounds like to me. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but that's what it sounded like.

Kyle:

Sure. I think I just, I just had a really unhealthy relationship with, you know, the drugs and alcohol. I think that was the big thing. And I knew that. And I just wanted to change my relationship with it. And I'm saying, I'm sure, you know, you know, a works for some people and things like that, but it's not like. You know, if you think like your, your son or daughter goes to AA and that's going to be a solution for everything, like it's, it doesn't, it's not the solution. Hey, they, they got to want to change or do something about it themselves. So when I was in drug rehab, when I was 17, they didn't make me go to AA meetings just cause that was just the solution. And uh, it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, we go to AA meetings in the middle of the day, there's a bunch of teenagers and then we would go, there would be a bunch of adults talking about, you know, their problems. Like we couldn't relate to them at all. And it wasn't, I don't think it, not that it was backfire and we just didn't get. Get a lot from it at that time. And, but they didn't know what else the solution was or what else to do. And so I always had a belief in myself too. It was just, you know, Mr. Brady cultivated, and then my mentor in New York city kind of cultivated it. And it was deep down at some point where I was like, sometimes I did give up and just think, you know, I'm this kind of my life. I'm not, not good. Things aren't going to happen anymore. You know what I mean? But luckily I had somebody to bring that back. I'll be like, yeah. You can do something if you keep pushing and keep going forward. So,

Brenda:

yeah, I love what you said about second chances. I think that's so important for people to understand that just because you took six years to get through high school, like that's okay. Keep going. You know, the second chances are what I think of them sort of as the little spark that and it, and I say that, and obviously the title of your book is wandering spark. But I was looking at the matches on the cover of your book. And I just love that image that sometimes it does take a second strike or a third strike or a fourth strike for something to stick. And for someone to have the self confidence and the self efficacy to say, okay, I'm going to do this again. I'm going to try this again. And you had to do that so many times. Do you wonder where that came from in you? Because there's certainly people who go through things like you did, and they are not a, an attorney today. They do not run ultra marathons. They do not do all the things that you're doing. Do you ever wonder what it was in you that just kept that going?

Kyle:

I do. And so it's kind of, sometimes I wish there wasn't inside of me cause then I wouldn't be trying so hard all the time. I could just, you know, not just, you know, have a normal kind of life. But I think a big part of it was, and we talked about this before, I want to prove to everybody, I want to prove to Triple B, I want to prove to my mom, I can do something. And then once I realized that, It doesn't matter what you do. Like, you know, you're not going to prove anything to him. You got to start proving to yourself. And then once I was doing, started doing everything for myself, that's when I just started feeling good about the things and the choices that I was making in life. So I think at the beginning I was just trying to prove to everybody, Hey, I can, I can be a lawyer, I can, you know, make money or what, whatever it is. I can be a good person. And then once I, once I realized, well, it doesn't matter what they think, cause it's not, Uh, first of all, they don't care. Like Trouble B doesn't care what, you know, it's not gonna make any difference in their lives. But once I started doing it for myself, that's when, you know, things started changing and that's when I start really started helping others. And like, that's really when the books started coming out and things like that.

Brenda:

Yeah. I know on your, I would just love to touch on this before we go. So, uh, I saw on your website, I was reading some of your articles and you wrote about IFS internal family systems and how that has been helpful for you. And, uh, I think it's really interesting. And I just actually interviewed somebody for the podcast on IFS. So would you just share a little bit about why that has been an effective treatment? Uh, like therapeutic modality for you sounded like you tried some other things that weren't necessarily as helpful.

Kyle:

Sure. So, and not to talk bad about other kinds of, uh, you know, talk therapy. I just kind of thought I was just going through the motions and I wasn't getting anywhere. With IFS therapy for your, for your listeners, I'm not an expert whatsoever. It's internal family systems and it was, uh, created by Dick Schwartz. And I, Read his, I listened to him on a podcast years ago and I picked up his book, no bad parts. And I started reading through it and what's amazing about this. Kind of therapy is that you have all these parts inside you, you have this protector and then you have these exiles and these protectors are trying to protect you from getting hurt. And so they might, that's like, that might be you acting out or screaming out and that what they are protecting is your inner child or your exile. That's been wounded when you're a kid. And if you really start talking to these protectors, why are you protecting me? Why are you doing this? And you find out they're doing it for good reasons. Like. Good intentions. And then once you get to know them and why they're doing things, you can start healing and then your exile comes out and you can start healing with them and start talking to them. And so it really helped me out because it really made sense to what was going on in my body and start why I started doing these things. There's why I was being triggered. I was like, wait, why are you being triggered? You start talking to your protector about it. Like, why are you doing that? And you really get into it. You find out why Thing, these things are going on. And another book, if you can't afford to get a therapist or you uh, want to do it on your own, there is another book called Self Therapy, which talks about the IFS by Jay Eerle, I believe is his name, which is very, very beneficial. He'll take you through all the steps and all the parts and exactly. There's Actual exercises you can do. There's actually exercises in Dick Schwartz book too, but the self therapy actually takes you to the process of healing. And so I can't recommend IFS therapy enough. And I just like it because to me, there's a system to it. You're not just kind of all over the place, grouting like, Oh, this is healed. This is why this happened. There's a process to healing. There's steps to it. And that's really why it spoke to me and why I really like it.

Brenda:

Yeah. And it sounds like it's something that you can use like other modalities, like CBT or dbt you can use, but if you're, it sounds like if you're in a particular situation, you can sort of run through and assess, okay, what part is this that is activated right now and why is that and, and understand it. And I would think, especially for somebody who did have to protect yourself so much when you were growing up, that it would be helpful to understand. Okay. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad kid. I'm doing, I was doing these things because I had to protect myself. I had to escape, whatever it was. So did that start to like answer some questions like, Oh, actually I'm not a bad person. I was doing these things for a reason. For sure.

Kyle:

And so even with my friends are like, if they say something that triggers me, I can realize like, Oh, why did you scream? Why did you act out? Oh, because like when you were younger, you weren't heard. And so you started screaming, you know, and doing things like, and that's what you're doing as an adult. And so it kind of helps you realize why you're doing things the way you are as an adult now. And I just got into IFS a few years ago. So like I said, I'm not an expert whatsoever, but it has helped me immensely. Just process my emotions and my feelings and why I do things and I can't. Yeah. I can't recommend it enough. So that's all I'd say about that.

Brenda:

Incredible. Incredible. Thank you for that. Well, Kyle, I'm so happy that we got to chat. I can't wait to dive deeper into your book, although I'll have to do it gently because it was a little stressful at first. Wandering Spark, your memoir, uh, we'll put a link in the show notes to that. And thank you so much for spending some time with me and my listeners.

Kyle:

Of course. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me.

Brenda:

Okay, my friend. That is a wrap for today. Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It's totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It is at hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried. And guess what? We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity. org and click on podcast and you will find it all there. You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name, and we have created playlists for you. It makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic. So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like the podcast's new home. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You've got this and you are going to be okay. You're not doing it alone. I will meet you right back here next week.

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Brenda Zane

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