I Can Fix This - And Other Lies You May Tell Yourself While Parenting a Struggling Child, with Kristina Kuzmič

ABOUT THE EPISODE:

Kristina Kuzmič had harbored some denial about her oldest son's depression, anxiety and substance use. "Lots of kids have problems. Maybe everything will work itself out," she thought. That denial ended abruptly the night she had to call the police.

Neighbors she hadn't even met yet stared from their driveways as her son was pushed into a police car, swearing loudly at her. Her three-word response to the shame and guilt she felt that night may just help change the way you view the world.

Kristina went on to write the book "I Can Fix This: And Other Lies I've Told Myself While Parenting My Struggling Child". Her son, now in recovery, encouraged her to write every gritty detail of the family's struggles -- and wrote the final chapter himself.

In this interview, Kristina brings the charm and humor that won Oprah's reality TV show to crucial issues facing parents with kids who are struggling. We discuss the power of shared experience in support groups, why she danced the night away as her son was in the psych ward, why the "good kids" in families often suffer in silence, and how parents can connect to them despite their sibling's struggles.  And so much more!

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Kristina’s YouTube Channel
• Kristina’s website
• Kristina’s Facebook
• Kristina’s Instagram

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
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Find us on Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

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Transcript

Kristina: 0:02

I realized that my value cannot be attached to any specific outcome, especially when that outcome is out of my control. And that's really hard, right? Because parents would feel like we, we should, if we see a problem, we should know how to fix it. We should know how to make it better. And we start blaming ourselves. And I had to just repeat to myself, I am doing the best. I know how I am providing him with all the support. I know how I will make mistakes. And that's human. And I will not have all the answers. And that's human. That doesn't make me inadequate. It makes me human. And also my value and worth cannot be attached to who he is, how he's doing, or how he ends up.

Brenda: 0:50

Welcome to HopeStream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health. I'm Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled. I'm so glad you're here. Take a deep breath, and know you're not doing this alone anymore. Hello, hello, friend. Guess who you're about to hang out with? Oh, just Kristina Kuzmich. I have been dying to get this episode live because not only is Kristina a favorite Oprah, she's one of us. She's been where you are or where you've been, and she wrote a book that came out earlier this year called, I love this title. I can fix this and other lies I've told myself while parenting my struggling child. So when she agreed to be on the podcast, I made a beeline for my library app, fired up the audiobook, and basically didn't do anything else for the next few days. Kristina immigrated to America from Croatia during the war in her homeland. And later faced more challenges like divorce, single parenting, poverty, mental health challenges, you know, all of those. And that's when Christina's goal became clear to be for others what she needed when she was at her lowest. Now with well over 1 billion with a B video views, Christina provides her audience with encouragement, hope. And humor in a role she never expected to fill. In 2011, when Oprah crowned Christina the winner of Mark Burnett's reality competition, Oprah's search for the next TV star, Oprah said, What is that thing that's so charming and charismatic and connected to the audience that makes you feel like, I know her. I want to be her. I'm like her. Christina has all of that. Since working with Oprah, Christina has branched out on her own, creating videos about juggling all of life's challenges. and encouraging her audience to prioritize their mental health. She has quickly become a viral sensation with 2. 9 million Facebook followers and over 774, 000 Instagram followers. Christina is a sought after international keynote speaker who has a unique way of connecting with audiences of all ages. Her first book, Hold On But Don't Hold Still, was released in 2020 and has since been translated to eight languages. We're seeing a second book, the one we're talking about today, is called I Can Fix This and Other Lies I've Told Myself While Parenting My Struggling Child. It was released in May of this year, 2024, and it was featured on Good Morning America, the New York Times, People Magazine, and other media outlets. This, my friend, was one of my all time favorite conversations because, as you know, I've Parent to parent, you have an immediate bond with someone who's been in the trenches and has been desperate to help their child. This book is phenomenal. Christina has a way of writing, so you feel like you're there in the room with her and also weaves in humor, which as we know, can help get us through the really dark, difficult times. I know you want to dive in, so get comfy and take a listen to a mom to mom, heart to heart chat with Christina Krusevich. Let's go. Christina. Hey, I'm so excited to chat with you reading while listening to your book. Wow. I was like, I feel like my life is just unfolding in front of me. So many similarities. Thank you for writing the book and thank you for being here.

Kristina: 5:04

Oh, thanks for having me.

Brenda: 5:05

Gosh, there's so many places that I would like to go because you know when you have this experience I'm sure you you have the same thing and you meet somebody who's been through it. There's just There's just so much you already know about that person and your strength and your resilience in particular. So there's a lot of places I want to go, but for people who haven't read the book, which by the way, pro tip, listen to the audio because you get to hear, there's just something different about hearing it from you. But why don't you just tell us a little bit about what you first started noticing with your son, Luca. And then I kind of want to dive into the way you organize the book is just awesome with these 10 Things, these insights, I guess I would call them that you really distilled out of a very traumatic experience. So we'll dive into those, but bring us up to speed on your experience and what you want people to know about that.

Kristina: 6:04

Sure. So Luca is my oldest. I have three children. And so as any parent knows with your first one, you're just sort of winging it. And then you realize that every kid is about winging it because every kid is different, but he was this very energetic, lively, happy, hilarious kid. And then around the age of 12, I started noticing some changes and I immediately diagnosed him with teenager. Then he started acting more teenager y than, I was expecting him to and I was like, well, my son is excelling at being a teenager. I should be proud. And just started noticing, you know, a lot of the things we hear about that come with teenage hormones. You don't want to hang out with mom and dad as much. Their friends are more important. Maybe they start sneaking around a little bit or experimenting or wanting to do things that make them popular. You know, all that stuff. What I eventually realized. Well, what I noticed is he wasn't just isolating from mom and dad. He was isolating from friends. He started isolating from everything that brought him joy. I found out eventually by asking him that he had thought about suicide and he was diagnosed with depression. Then later on anxiety, ADHD, and it was just years, years of chaos. His depression often showed up as anger and aggression, years of therapy appointments, seven different psychiatrists. Yeah. I ran out of the number, I, I can't remember the number of medications we tried, hospitalization, two residential treatment centers, calling the police on it, I mean, all of it. So yeah, so the book is about me trying to learn to support him through it all and being lost and clueless and scared. And then the last chapter is actually written by him. So you hear from a mom and then you hear directly from the teen,

Brenda: 7:52

which is magical. So incredible. I thought he was so articulate and just, it was just so beautiful. Like, and it was a surprise. I had no idea that was going to be there. So I guess, spoiler alert, we, we just ruined it for everybody. But, but that was amazing. And one thing that I thought was really interesting, and obviously like I've seen your videos and all that, and they know that humor plays a big role in your life and. I thought you did this amazing job of weaving your personality and humor into the book in a way that is tasteful and real. Because you do kind of have to laugh at some of this, like some of the things that they get themselves into, right? You just can't even fathom in, in the way that we process things. How is that for you? Like, how is humor sort of playing a role in all of this?

Kristina: 8:48

So I've always sort of found the funny or tried to find the funny in life. When I was, I grew up in Croatia and when I was 12, a war started there and I literally started writing funny, silly songs about wars that were. Probably considered very inappropriate because they were, but I guess I always sort of, you know, found humor therapeutic. This is actually my second book. In my first book, Hold Down But Don't Hold Still, I write how for me going through life without humor is like eating soup with a fork. You'll miss out. You'll miss out on, on so many things. You'll, you'll even miss out on Finding out new perspectives. If you don't try to find the

Brenda: 9:27

funny. Well, you did an amazing job of it. Some of the self talk, like just some of those things that, you know, I think we could, for those of us and all, anyone who's listening either has a kiddo in it right now, or. Maybe they have ink, inklings or they're, you know, kind of moved into early recovery, but we've all had those conversations with ourselves. And one thing that has stuck with me and I really loved about sort of a mantra that sounded like you had, which was no, thank you. I would love to have you talk about that a little bit because it felt so good for me even now and I'm seven, eight years past, you know, I don't think we're ever done, but I'm past the worst and I still can have those things in my head. And so that was really helpful for me. How did that, how did that arrive for you? So

Kristina: 10:24

the night I had to call the police on my son, we were pretty new to the neighborhood and he's, they're taking him to a 72 hour psychiatric hold, even though these police officers were trying to convince me to press charges and take him to jail. But I was like, okay, I have learned to look for whether my son's behavior requires a consequence or car's help. And he needs help right now. So anyway, they, he's handcuffed. They're putting him in the back of the car. They're being a little aggressive with him. And there are two women. from my street, my new street, who I have not even met yet. And they're standing right across the street and they're staring at the scene. There's two police cars, the sirens are on, you know, the whole thing. And this was a very, I still live in the same house. It's a very quiet neighborhood. And so as he's putting in, I'm rushing out to say goodbye to him. And he's screaming at me to F off. And cause he hates me at this point. And anyway, I look over and I noticed them and immediately. As any human would, the thoughts come to my head of like, Oh my gosh, they don't know what's going on. You know, they don't even know the background story. And what are they going to think of my family? Are they going to tell other neighbors of this happening? And they're all going to hate us and judges, blah, blah, blah. And I just remember in that moment thinking, no, thank you. Because the way I, so I've been in the public eye for a while and the way I've always dealt with judgments, other people's, you know, hate or whatever they throw at you on social media. I've thought of it as them handing me suitcases. That are full of their own stuff and their own and their own, you know, and I'm not going to pick that up. I carried it for, I, I picked up every suitcase handed to me for most of my life. I'm not picking up. So that's where that no thank you came from. I just thought, no, thank you. I'm not picking up. I am not picking up that judgment. I'm not going to carry whatever they may say or may think. I'm not, because if I pick it up when it's being handed to me and I felt like it was being handed to me, right. And that is going to distract me. From focusing on where I actually need to focus on, which is my son. Right. And then I write in the book how after I was not allowed to follow, they took me in the ER first and I was not allowed to follow. They told me I had to stay home until I got a call from the ER. I got into bed and then the self criticism started. How much of this is your fault, Christina? What did you do or didn't do that your son is being taken by the police? I'm a psychiatric. What kind of a mother are you? You know, all that stuff. Why didn't you know how to get him help sooner and the right helmet? And I remember laying in bed and whispering out loud to myself too, right? I am not doing this. I'm not picking up this self criticism. And it really did become a mantra for me and I still use it, you know, because I'm human and I still think, oh, what will so and so think or will? And I immediately, thankfully now I've done it so many times that my brain immediately goes there. And I just, I literally visualize them handing me something that's garbage, handing me something that is destructive in my life, that is destructive in my family's life, that is not going to move me forward, that is not good for me. And I just, I say, no, thank you. And it's so.

Brenda: 13:31

It's so freeing. It's really, I love that image of somebody handing you something and I've definitely stolen it. I'm running with it because it's, it's been really helpful. Just in everyday stuff, even if you're not dealing with something as critical as, um, We were, as you were with Luca, it's just helpful overall, especially for someone like you that's in the public eye and you, you have to be thinking about, Oh my gosh, where is this going to end up, right? Like. That

Kristina: 14:00

was actually the title of the book was no thank you.

Brenda: 14:02

Oh.

Kristina: 14:02

They decided we need something that's more clear to what it is. And I can fix this on the, which is a great title because every chapter is a lie because I can't fix it. Right. But originally Because that was such a powerful statement in my life. That was going to be the name of the book.

Brenda: 14:18

Love it. Well, that would have been good too, but I can fix this. Well, in the first The first five lies, which are, I can fix this, I'm in control, it's my fault, progress is straight, and good parents are selfless. Like hands down, every single person I talk to has all of those lies just imprinted in their brain. And I'm just wondering when How did you start to sort of turn the corner on these? Was it sort of gradual? Did everything unfold as you were going through it or did you have to get some distance once Luca did start to improve? How did all of these kind of manifest themselves with you?

Kristina: 15:04

So the first five definitely were gradual and throughout the process. And because we humans are silly, silly people, we learn a lesson and then we make the same, we do the same thing and we learn again and again. So even though I could identify this as a lie, for example, I, I don't have the control to fix it, or I, this is not within my control, you know, all those, even though I knew they were lies, I would still, my brain would still, or my anxiety would still go, Hmm, why can't you fix this? So, you know, it, as any healing process. Takes it took time to really work through those, but those were happening in real time for me. And there are things that I had to learn to get to the last few chapters that I wrote, where we're in a better place. Because one thing I wrote in the book is how I had to identify the unhealed parts of myself I was bringing into parenting. And, you know, a lot of us, I definitely thought, you know, I've, I've gone through abuse, And, you know, all kinds of things in my past and I had things in my childhood and I've dealt with it. I have dealt with it. I've been to therapy and I'm good and now I can be a healthy parent. But when your child is struggling, whoo, man, does that put a spotlight on things that are still unhealed in you? And so I was bringing in my own anxiety and my fears, my insecurities, my ego, right? Um, and a lot of those things, You know, the lies just amplified it.

Brenda: 16:37

Well, and also, you know, as I found out as well, I was doing this with an ex husband and a step dad, and it brings up their stuff as well, because all of this is now like in their face. And I have to imagine, and you know, I've talked with my husband about it, how difficult that is. To be the step parent, because I think they have a little bit more objectivity, obviously, than we do, especially as moms, we have that umbilical relationship that's just so close and so tight. And, and I know that it was difficult for your husband too, to be going through this. And he probably took a brunt of, of Luca's. You know anger and pain and all of that as well Yeah,

Kristina: 17:25

and I mean gosh, I give my husband so much credit for the positive steps Luca took because he's a lot. My husband is a lot more patient than me. My strengths lie elsewhere. Okay, and so He would sometimes stay up till 3 a. m I'd wake up and I see he wasn't in bed. I'm like, what's going on? And I would text him and check where he was and he's like, I'm just sitting in the car talking to Luca. I mean, just for hours, this happened multiple times. And I think because, you know, he, he loves Luca. He always says, this is, this must be what adoption feels like. Because he really cares about, he doesn't feel like, I'm married to someone with kids. Okay, he feels like those are his kids. He has that strong love and bond with them. And they have so much respect for him. And so, yes. There was the fear for him and all of that, but you're right. It was, he was able to, I don't know it. He didn't come to the, every situation as panicked and freaking out as I did. And Luca needed that. I mean, Luca wrote in this chapter how he was. When, when I noticed that my mother was coming from a place of fear, it made me feel unsafe. And I didn't actually know that till I read his chapter. Really? Oh my gosh. Like our kids can sense it. We can fake it, but they sense our fear and then they don't feel safe because if you're scared, Well, what am I supposed to feel, right? It impacted my marriage negatively, this whole situation, because I was emotionally spent. I was overwhelmed. And marriage felt like yet another thing on my emotional to do list that I didn't have time for. And I didn't even care. All right? I'm just trying to keep my son alive. So, my husband was very private. Gracious enough to let me know. Let me write about that and help me write it and then we also write how we got back on track But I can't even imagine being a step in this situation,

Brenda: 19:14

you know, I didn't have the Suicidality issue to deal with my son put himself in extremely dangerous situations Which you know weren't easy to deal with but I think there's a different level of fear when you do know that Your son could hurt himself and you wrote about the counselor the therapist who brought you in and said do you have guns in your house? And I can't even like how do you walk through each day when you know, that's a possibility

Kristina: 19:48

Well, first of all when I asked my son when he was 14, have you ever thought about hurting yourself? And he said, yes. And is it because you want to die? And he said, yes, your whole world changes.

Brenda: 19:59

Yeah.

Kristina: 20:00

Your entire world, you, now you are constantly living in fear. If he is not in your presence, which he can't be 24 seven, you are here. Right. You know how when you have a newborn, you go, you know, you'll, you'll like put, when they're sleeping, you'll put your face close theirs because they're so still and you just want to feel their breath and make sure they're okay. I used to go into my son's bedroom when he was 15, 16, 17, putting my face close to his multiple times a night to just feel his breath to know that he hadn't taken his life. And wasn't laying there dead. I mean, it's awful. Living like that is awful. Right? And so when we had already been hospitalized, he had already been through, you know, so much. And now this counselor is telling me, asking me if I have any guns in my house. And I said, no, what, why? And she said, Luca, if he has access to a gun, he will kill himself. He has a plan and then, you know, she started asking, does anybody, you know, have guns? And then my mind's just going crazy thing, right? I don't know about all of his friends homes and all this stuff. And then after that, she said, I need you to hide all the knives in the house. And I'm sitting there and it's like, what is this life I'm living? What, what nobody gets excited to have a baby and gets pregnant or adopts or whatever. And things. Someday, I will be hiding the knives in my house because my child might hurt himself. Well, for months, I don't even know how long, we would have all the knives locked up in a cabin in the garage. And I had to make dinner. I was like, wait a minute, how do you cook? It was, it was crazy. I would go to the garage, I would chop up, take the knife, chop up the onions, whatever I needed to chop up, wash it immediately, and go put it back and lock it up. I mean, it was, it, it, it didn't feel like I was living my own life. It felt like I was living a nightmare. So for any parent going through it, I mean, first of all, get all the support you can, because you can't do this alone. You cannot do this alone and you should not do alone. But also one thing I had to accept, which is so hard, I hear this from parents who unfortunately did lose their kids. Children is I realized that my value cannot be attached to any specific outcome, especially when that outcome is out of my control. And that's really hard, right? Because parents would feel like we, we should, if we see a problem, we should know how to fix it. We should know how to make it better. And we start blaming ourselves. And I had to just repeat to myself, I am doing the best. I know how I am providing him with all the support. I know how, but I will make mistakes. And that's human. And I will not have all the answers and that's human. That doesn't make me inadequate. It makes me human. And also my value and worth cannot be attached to who he is, how he's doing or how he ends up.

Brenda: 22:59

Hey there. Are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child worried sick about their substance use? I have been there and I want you to know there's hope. This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents. We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family. So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments. We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom. We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you. Head over to hopestreamcommunity. org to tap into all of our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community. Remember, you're not alone in this. We're doing it together. Now, let's get back to the conversation. I think that's what I see parents really struggling with so much is the blame, first of all the blame and. The million questions that you asked yourself, well, what if I would have done this? And what if I hadn't? And maybe that's sleepover. And then there was the camp that he went to and the, you know, the, just the crazy reel that's going through your head about what you did or didn't do. And then that idea of not being in control is so hard. Did you have, Like, what was the help that you were getting through this to be able to start recognizing some of that? Because it doesn't, I don't think it comes naturally, like, I never got a manual on that. I don't know if I missed it or what, but like, how did you start processing that?

Kristina: 25:07

I mean, the most helpful thing for me and for Luca actually were support groups. After he was done with his, he went to two different residential centers, but after the first one, they recommended a support group and we found one and. You know, he would go Mondays, Wednesdays, and then Saturdays we would go together, it was like family, families. And so, him sitting there, and hearing other kids go, Hey, I'm having these thoughts, I'm having these feelings, I, and, You know, he's sitting there going, Oh my gosh, somebody else feels what I feel, right? And you immediately feel less alone. Which I believe that healing doesn't happen in isolation. And so, that was very helpful to him. But then Saturdays when I went, I'm sitting there with sometimes 30 other families. And some of them are way ahead of us, okay? They've been going through this way longer. Some of them are on their third kid who is struggling, right? And, and just not only feeling validated, But just, just realizing, Oh my gosh, none of us know what we're doing and it's okay. And then learning from what helped somebody else. I mean, it was transformative for me. It was, it was life changing for me. Those support groups, so important. And then eventually it was actually after Lucas started getting better. I realized, Hmm, why am I, why am I not better? Like, why is he better? And I'm, I feel like I'm getting worse. And I realized that I had a lot of. Stuff that I still need to deal with and I was living in fear And so then I also did an individual therapy, which was very helpful.

Brenda: 26:32

Yeah that that part of the equation of Oh, wait a minute. This isn't, I'm going to send my kids somewhere and they're going to get help and then they're going to get better and then we're just going to carry on. The realization that this is my problem too, that I have to do some work with is such a bummer. I

Kristina: 26:56

know we're already tired. We had to deal with the toddler thing and we got trained in the math homework that we don't, and now I'm supposed to work on me. Like, are you kidding me? I don't have time for this exactly, but I write in the book how, you know, people were asking me, what's the thing? What's the thing that like really helped your relationship and helped you be a better support system for him, but also helped him be like really open to you when he was struggling so you would know that he needs help. What help? And I realized that what really made the ultimate difference. Was when I stopped trying to quote unquote fix him and decided to fix myself decided to work the crap that I was built bringing into the relationship and that changed everything because when I was able to deal with my ego and deal with my insecurities and deal with my It's like, panic and anxiety, all that stuff. Then I was a safer place for him. And also, when I was able to, like I said earlier, realize that my value is not attached to this. Well, now I'm coming from a completely different place, right? You think that, that your children are a reflection of your work. You are going to be a very different parent. Yes. And if you realize they are not a reflection of my work. And I, because I have no, ultimately, I have no control over some of the decisions they're going to make. And also, I don't control whether they end up with a mental illness or not, okay? There's a, there's a lot of factors that play into it. This is not something I gave them. That changes the way you parent. And then the kids feel safer because they don't have a panic stricken mom. I was a lunatic for a few years there. I mean, I really, I, I, I probably made things worse more than better while I was living in that panic.

Brenda: 28:41

Yes, coming from that place of fear, you do irrational things. You say things that you don't end up wanting to say, making threats that you know you're never going to keep, right, or consequences or whatever it is, because we just are so desperate to hold on to something that will help make them better. And I know you, you described an evening that evening when you did have to call the police. And I think so many parents are like you. Like that wait calling the police on my kid like am I really doing this and it does take things to Another level and almost like you said like out of body like wait Where are the cameras because I this has to be a movie of someone else's life. Was that a big turning point for you? I felt at

Kristina: 29:35

times like denial and fear were each campaigning from my vote. Okay, there are two candidates running very different tickets. They got very different policies and they're literally trying to convince me I should cast my vote for them. And so I kept having the fear, which we already talked about, but then I occasionally I would have the denial of like, okay, listen, he'll be fine. He's started therapy. Okay, now he's on medication. That'll fix it. It's fine. Right? Oh, it's not that. It's not that. A lot of kids struggle. A lot of kids do drugs. A lot of kids. So, I was battling with that denial fear thing. And then that night, denial was gone. I was like, I never, ever in my life, it never even crossed my mind that I would have to call the police on my child. That I would watch my son be handcuffed. That, you know, all of it. It was just, it's a very humbling, heart wrenching experience. For But I do want to say, for anyone listening, there is no shame in it, there is no shame in it. And it doesn't mean you're a bad parent, and it doesn't mean that your child is a bad child. Your child is in pain and they need help. That's it. I don't believe there are bad children. I believe there are children who are in a lot of pain, and they don't know how to deal with it. We adults often don't know how to deal with their pain. Pain comes out in really unhealthy, sometimes aggressive, sometimes isolating ways. And there is nothing wrong with that. You know, we see all these memes and all this stuff on social media. It's okay to not be okay. It's okay to ask for help. And, and we think of like little things like asking a friend for help. Sometimes asking for help means calling the police. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. That's okay. It's, it's not ideal, but if that is the step you need to take in order to get your child help, that's the step you need to take and you should never feel embarrassed about it. And I, I'm so glad, as I was writing this book, with every chapter, Luca was helping me. Because I wanted it to be authentic to his story. And there were so many times, like, When I wrote what, the whole scene of what he did and, you know, how he got aggressive and violent and all that before we called the police. I said, Luca, we don't have to write all that. I can just say it was a rough night. I can kind of, you know, and he was like, no, mom, write it, write every detail because this is the stuff nobody's writing about. And it's true. And so I'm so proud of him for not having shame about it. Because he shouldn't, he, he will so openly now talk about, you know, I was in a psychiatric hospital and I was taken in by the police one time. I mean, he just, he's very open.

Brenda: 31:59

Yeah. Well, I've seen the, you have a couple of videos talking with him, uh, on YouTube that I think are must watch and I'm going to link to them in the show notes so everybody can see them. There's a really amazing point that to me feels like a turning point for you, a birthday party that you had. Tell a little bit of that story of the decision that you had to make.

Kristina: 32:24

I love birthdays and I make a really big deal about everybody's birthdays, but I never had like a big birthday party. And so my 40th birthday was coming up and my husband was like, I think we should throw you a big party. So he gets this beautiful, you know, reserves a room at a beautiful restaurant overlooking LA and. You know, we get a, he gets a DJ and orders a cake and photo booth. This whole thing, we have friends flying in from out of town. It's going to be this beautiful big birthday party. And then that weekend, right after the party, I'm going to go away on a girl's weekend to Santa Barbara. So this party was planned for Friday, which was my actual birthday. On Tuesday was the night I had to call the police on my son. And he was taken in. On Wednesday, he was in the ER waiting for a bed to open up in a psychiatric hospital. And I kept coming to visit him in the ER and he kept yelling at me to get the F out. And then that night, he was finally transferred to a hospital. And Thursday was his first day at the hospital. And so I said to my husband, obviously, we got to cancel everything. And he tried to encourage me still go through with it. He was like, Christina, there's no visiting hours Friday night at the hospital. So you can't see him. And I was like, I can't have a party. This is insane. Right. So I called my mother in law and she very gently said, Christina, if you don't go through with this party, what will you do instead during that time? And we both knew that I'd be crying and, you know, worrying and all that. And she said, maybe this is the exact time that you do need to be surrounded by people who love you. So reluctantly. I go through with this party and I show up all dressed up and I'm trying to fake the smiles and inside I'm just dying because I knew that sitting right next to me, it was supposed to be Luke and I am like, just having a hard time even holding it together. And then all of a sudden a friend of mine pulls me onto the dance floor. And I let loose. I dance and I dance and I dance until there are blisters on my feet and there's sweat running down my back. I'm dancing. And I wrote in the book how it felt really, really, really good. And right after it felt really, really, really good, it felt really

Brenda: 34:27

bad.

Kristina: 34:28

Because what kind of a mother has a party for herself and dances while her son is in a psychiatric hospital? Wanting to die,

Brenda: 34:37

right?

Kristina: 34:39

So months later, I'm talking to a friend of mine and I tell him, you know, I can't shake the guilt. I cannot shake this guilt. I cannot believe I went through with that stupid party. I just feel like that was the most selfish, stupidest, awful decision as a mother. And he says to me, Christina, you did Luca a favor. I'm like, what? What are you? That doesn't make any sense. And then he proceeded to tell me how when he was in high school, he went through a depression. And he said, I put my mom through a lot during that time. And if I knew that on top of everything I put her through, that she canceled something she was really looking forward to, and Luca knew you were really looking forward to that, I would still feel guilty to this day. Decades later, you gave Luca one less thing to feel that he destroyed.

Brenda: 35:28

Wow.

Kristina: 35:29

Yeah. I mean, mind blown, right? Cause I never thought of it that way. Because I think we convince ourselves that if our loved ones are struggling that we have to struggle as well

Brenda: 35:40

Yeah,

Kristina: 35:40

that's the only way that we show true empathy and love is if we're also struggling And so my perspective was once Luca is happy I can be happy right once Luke is fully enjoying his life Then I am allowed to fully enjoy mine and what Zach taught me that day is that that is a hell of a lot of pressure to put on some because What if Luca is never healthy and and also good emotions? Positive emotions should not be some sort of a reward that I have to earn, especially when earning it is contingent on circumstances completely out of my control. Right, right. And so then as I was writing the book, I actually called him into my office and I was like, Hey, Did you, we never talked about it. Like, did you know that I had my birthday party? And he was like, oh yeah, I saw some pictures and I saw some videos. And I'm like, oh my gosh. He's like, yeah, I saw videos of you dancing. I'm, I'm just like dying inside. And I said, Luca, to me, honestly, what do you think about the fact that I went through with that party right after you were hospitalized? And he said, mom, he kind of got emotional. He goes, mom, you deserved it. I'm so glad and then we'll add a bigger conversation about it later and I told him what Zach said my friend Zach. He completely agreed He's like I feel so guilty about the way I treated you I did not need one more thing to feel guilt about. So there you go, parents. There you go. I feel guilty, prioritizing myself, taking care of myself. No, no. What you're doing is you're actually removing guilt from your child who is struggling.

Brenda: 37:07

Yes, permission slip granted to go do the thing, even if that means it's a party and you're going to be dancing and your kid is in The hospital. Yep. I agree. My son said the same thing. He said, Oh, when you would tell me you were going to go have a cup of coffee and I had to fake it at first because like you did not feel good. He said, Oh, I felt so much better because I knew you were taking care of yourself. They want us to be. Yeah. And, and that's so hard, but it's so important. And I know that you have other kids. So like that whole part of it, as if you didn't have enough with the one and you're worried about the others. So talk a little bit about what that was like for you guys.

Kristina: 38:03

So the night that we had to call the police on my son, we were in my bedroom and my husband was making sure that Luca didn't run away because a week or so prior he had run away from home, he was suicidal, you know, we were obviously petrified, and so he was making sure he wouldn't run away again, and my little one, he was four, my youngest, For at the time starts knocking on the bedroom door, by the way, he's hearing Luca screaming threatening us He's hearing, you know, he threw a glass at me missed me and hit the wall, but he's hearing all this shatter And he starts knocking on the door. He goes mommy. I need some water and I knew He did not need water. Yeah. I said, just go downstairs. I had called my mother in law, you know, grandma's going to pick you up. You're going to have a sleepover with your sister and grandma. And he just was like, why is it so loud? You know, and then the way the timing worked out as my mother in law was picking them up. is right when the, or as they were leaving the driveway, was when the police was coming outside with Luka Hankins. So they witnessed that. Of course. So, you know, for weeks after, every day, we're checking on how Ari's doing. We were, we met with a therapist and he said, check if the kids are eating the same. If, you know, if there, if you see any changes in how they're socializing or eating or sleeping or anything. And everything seemed fine. Ari, my little one, seemed great with my daughter. She was 13 at the time. I kept checking. I said, Matam, what if you talk to a therapist? Because it's a lot to process, you know, and she was like, Mom, I'm really okay. I'll let you know. I'm really okay. Come to find out. She was not okay. She was really struggling. And she, when I asked her later, why didn't you tell me? She said, Mom, you're already so stressed. I didn't want to any more, add any more stress. The quote unquote good kids, kids who are labeled as easier, good kids. We'll go out of their way to play that role to not any stress and they will suppress. And a lot of times that's even more dangerous because now we don't even know how or what to offer as help, right? Because they're playing photo, go good kid card. They will suffer in silence. And so that was hard to find out. And then. My little one, again, we thought somehow miraculously he's fine and we talked and we told him, you know, when the police came, you know, Luca was sick. So instead of an ambulance coming to take him to the hospital, the police came to take him to the hospital. So we tried to give him the truth on an age appropriate level.

Brenda: 40:31

Right.

Kristina: 40:32

But one day, this was like six months after that incident, maybe more, He's not listening to my husband. My husband is asking to clean his room, and he's just not listening, not listening. And finally my husband goes, hey, but you don't start listening. We're gonna have a problem. And my little boy with his big brown eyes looks at my husband, his dad, and he goes, is that when you call the police? And they take me away for a very, very, very long time.

Brenda: 40:54

Oh,

Kristina: 40:55

and I mean this little child was carrying this trauma in him. We had no idea, we had no idea, and I have learned not to beat myself up for it because that's not useful. But I say this and we shared it so bluntly because if you have a child who is struggling, it is affecting the rest of the family. It just is. It is as it is. It's not possible for it not to. If they are seeing, you know, their sibling depressed or making unhealthy choices and they're hearing the arguments and.

Brenda: 41:31

What would you do different? Like, would you try to have them get into therapy? Or, cause I, I think that's such a common struggle is, well they say they're fine and they seem fine.

Kristina: 41:44

I think when there's a big trauma happening in the house, I definitely think if you can get your kids to therapy. I would have brought my daughter sooner. She eventually started going to those, you know, We were in support groups on the Saturdays with family ones, right? She started going to those. Eventually I would have brought her right away because there's siblings there. She could hear from one thing we started doing with her after I found out she was struggling is I said, how about every single week we pick one day? And it's just you and me and Phillip, her stepdad, and her husband. And the rule is, we go, we go do something fun, and we're not allowed to talk about Luca. And through that, that really helped her just open up to us, and feel like she matters as much as Luca matters. Luca became the main character in our family. The kid who's struggling often becomes the main character. He became the main character in my story, in my marriage, in my other kids stories, and that was unfair to everyone, including me. Luca, it was unfair to him. And so I, you have to make sure that you're not casting anybody as the main character. And even when I was in somebody else's story, even when I was checking on her, I was not checking on her just in general. I was checking on her. This was another mistake, right? Going, Hey, there's just so much going on with Luca. He's really struggling witnessing this, right? Everything became about Luca when she was struggling and she admitted, she goes, mom, what if my struggling has nothing to do with Luca? What if I would struggle even if it wasn't for Luca? I was like, yes, yes, it's a very big possibility. And here I am deciding that I know it all, right? He is the reason you are struggling. So that's one thing I would say is spend as much time alone, doing something fun with that child, connecting with them in a way where they will open up to you without mentioning the struggling kid or how exhausted you are or you haven't slept because they know why you haven't slept. He can't be the main character. Yeah. He cannot be character in their story.

Brenda: 43:46

Yeah. It's like the whole family kind of pivots and revolves around everything revolves around them. And it is so unhealthy. And then it's even hard. I know like when my son went to treatment, I don't know if you had this, but We had been, we had been twirling around him for so long that when he was out of the picture, we were all a little bit like wobbly and like, now what do we do? Yeah. Because you're so used to that, you know, that dance, like that's how the whole family was dancing that way. And now it's different. Yeah. It's so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristina: 44:22

The main characters left the building. Right. Now he's in, he's getting help. And now all of us. Yeah. Because we were all, we were all thinking he was the only problem.

Brenda: 44:34

Exactly. It's like, wait a minute. Yeah. Just beautiful and perfect. Yes. How did that happen? Did you have to leave anything out of the book that you, if you were to go back and do like a addendum or a follow up that you would want to put in? Because I know you must have now had both. Thousands of conversations with people since the book came out. Is there anything that you're like, Oh man, I really wish we could have gotten that in there.

Kristina: 45:02

I mean, there were so many stories that it was hard to, as you know, as someone who's gone through it knows, that it was hard to sort of decide which ones were pivotal. So there's probably, I mean, I could literally write a sequel. I don't plan on it. But the one thing that Luca has mentioned that he wished he had written more about. Was his experience being bullied as a kid even through all this he kind of didn't I don't think he realized until he was In a much healthier place how much it affected him and the ironic part, I guess I don't even know if the word is ironic Is that when he was 11, he and I made a video four ways to deal with a bully. You can find it on YouTube and he's a cutie little guy. His voice wasn't deep yet, and he is talking about being bullied and the way he deals with it. And he's not going to let other people, you know, determine who he is. And it's a very, very cute video, but. I think that's another thing of like, we parents just take them at their word, right? Because Luca was being bullied, and we would check in and everything, and he was like, Mom, I'm fine. I know how to deal with it. It's about them. He's saying all the right things. He's saying all the things you want your kid to say if they're being bullied. Um, but again, these things leave scars, and those were deep. And so he did say, you know, if I could, Write it again. I would write more about that because so many kids have gone through that. And also parents need to hear that even if your kid, just like if they have a sibling who's struggling, if they're being bullied, if something big is happening in their life, it will affect them. Yeah. And it's really easy for us parents to convince ourselves, especially, you know, when we have other stuff going on or one kid is struggling, that everything else is fine, every, you know, it's like we need, we need things to be okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he wasn't struggling yet, but motherhood is hard, it's challenging. And so if my kid is telling me he's fine, phew, good, one less thing I have to deal with.

Brenda: 46:55

I'm glad you mentioned that because I think a lot of times, you know, there's a lot more information out now about trauma and people hear trauma. And I think they immediately go to, like, I mean, you were part of a war, like people go to that level. And sometimes they don't think about bullying being one of those traumas, especially now. I think a lot of, I don't know what his experience was, but a lot of times the bullying is online or on their phone and we don't see it. And so it's a little trickier to tease out, but I'm glad you said that. Uh, just also as a reminder that, you know, that denial campaign can be very convincing, right? Even, even if we are hearing all the things, I think a lot of times there's, There's something in our gut that is like, maybe not, you know, and we just don't want to listen to it because it's, there are a million other things going on. So listening to the gut, I think is really important in those cases. And it's tricky because you don't want to cause more friction and more. Trauma badgering, right?

Kristina: 48:07

If we're caught if you're constantly going to your kid and saying things like, you know I know you're being bullied and this is awful. You don't deserve that. Let's get right that can obviously Make the trauma even worse because now my parent is coming from a place of fear like my son said feel safe I think that part has so much to do again back to us Healing those parts so that we can come from a place of connection instead of control I write in the book how in every interaction I have with my child I can choose to either control or connect because I can't do both and I've tested out for all of you You're welcome. You can't have the both at the same time And what happens, we hear a kid is being bullied or a kid is struggling. We go into control mode and control mode looks very different to our children. Then connect, connect mode is what it's going to, it's going to get them to feel safe and open up and actually maybe even really think about what they're feeling. Instead of just, I'm fine, I'm fine. Right. If I could go back and do parenting and, and by the way, I'm not one of those people that lives in their grads and I know we all make mistakes and blah. If I could go back and do one thing differently, it would be to Always make the decision in those moments. I'm going to connect instead of control.

Brenda: 49:19

Right? Beautiful. Well, I know I need to let you go. Just wondering if you were to bump into a mom on your street this week and she was like, uh, kind of going through a rough time with my kiddo. What would be the first thing you would say to her?

Kristina: 49:39

First of all, I would give her a huge hug, right? And I would want to remind her that her child is not broken, and your family's not broken, and you're not broken, and struggling is normal, and we all need support sometimes. But the main thing I would want to emphasize to her is the only thing you can control right now is how you treat yourself. And what we tend to do when life is hard, I think of this visual life throws all this far away, unexpected stuff. It's just huge pile, right? And it's heavy. It's heavy. We silly humans do is we add to that pile and make it heavier by going, what's wrong with me that I don't know how to fix this. Why am I inadequate? Why is my child struggling? Is it my fault? I feel guilty about this and I'm not good at this and right. And we make the pile even bigger. So the way you treat yourself. Is the key through all of it and you gotta give yourself so much grace and forgiveness and not expect perfection and, and just treat yourself with the same kind. This is how I always think of it. Treat yourself with the same kindness that you would want your child to treat themselves with if they were going through their child, right? Model that we are, you're never selfish or self centered or should feel guilty for taking the wrong path. care of yourself because you are taking care of the most important person in your child's life and you are modeling to them how to be forgiving of themselves and how to give themselves grace and how to treat themselves with so much patience and kindness when life is at its worst.

Brenda: 51:15

Thank you. Beautiful, beautiful words, wise words, hard earned wisdom. I know. Thank you, Christina. I appreciate it so, so much.

Kristina: 51:27

Thank you so much for having me.

Brenda: 51:30

Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today. Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It's totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It is at hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried. And guess what? We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity. org and click on podcast and you will find it all there. You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name. And we have created playlists for you, makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic. So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like the podcast's new home. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You've got this and you are going to be okay. You're not doing it alone. I will meet you right back here next week.