Hopestream for parenting kids through drug use and addiction

Do I Really Need A Community? Who is Hopestream for? All The Answers You Need, with Cathy Cioth

• Brenda Zane, Cathy Cioth • Season 5 • Episode 224

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ABOUT THE EPISODE:

If you’re a loyal podcast listener, or just new to our space, you might be curious about what the Hopestream Community membership is all about, and if it would be helpful for you. 

Because we get questions about this all the time, Hopestream co-founder, Cathy Cioth and I decided to dedicate an episode to answering them. We cover questions like, is my kid bad enough (or too bad) for this community? What if my kid is already in treatment and I have great support there? What if I’m a mental health professional or a prominent member of my community and I don’t want people to know I’m there for help? Tune in to find out answers to these questions and more.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

This podcast is part of a nonprofit called Hopestream Community
Learn about The Stream, our private online community for moms
Learn about The Woods, our private online community for dads
Find us on Instagram: @hopestreamcommunity
Download a free e-book, Worried Sick: A Compassionate Guide For Parents When Your Teen or Young Adult Child Misuses Drugs and Alcohol

Hopestream Community is a registered 501(c)3 nonprofit organization and an Amazon Associate. We may make a small commission if you purchase from our links.

Brenda:

so if your child is experimenting and they're not dependent, like I remember my son, I've thought for a long time he doesn't have a problem because we just went on vacation for two weeks and he didn't have anything with him and he didn't go into withdrawal. So it's not really that big of an issue. little did I know how difficult those two weeks were for him. they don't even have to be addicted or dependent and ideally if you can get the help before they get to that point, that's ideal. Hey Kathy, we're back for a Brenda Kathy show. It's been a while. good to see you this morning.

Cathy:

It's good to see you too. I was just thinking about it has been a little bit of time since we've had a chance to do this. And even though we talk a lot, this is fun.

Brenda:

And we also just got back from spending time together, which was lovely. because I think we've maybe been together, in the same space. less than 15 times now,

Cathy:

Exactly. I think it's actually so cool because we're like soulmates it's just like seeing your sister, and it's really great. And we had such a great time. and I'm glad that we're going to do a little talking about where we just were, cause that was such a wonderful time. And so eyeopening of how important self care

Brenda:

Completely. this last weekend, Kathy and I got to go on a retreat. For us, we didn't actually run the retreat, which was amazing. I'd forgotten what it's like to go to something and not be running it, at least in this space, in the world that we live in this world of parents with kids who are struggling in a variety of ways. And so we got to just go and receive attention and care and being pampered and relaxing. I think I floated in a pool for two and a half hours on Saturday. Like, when does that? ever happen. And so I don't know about you, but I came back from that just being so reminded of how vital it is because you and I are super strong, right? We take really good care of ourselves at home. at the same time, we still need occasionally that extra kind of bump. What do we call it when we're there? It's carb loading.

Cathy:

Carb loading. We definitely carb loaded on the self care portion of our lives. It was great. And it felt so good. When you carb load, you taste it and you're like, this tastes so good. And I agree. I love the retreats that we put on at HopeStream. They are amazing and we do get a lot out of them. We do have our heads hit the pillow at night thinking about did we cover everything that we were supposed to cover today? Are our moms feeling loved and cared for in the way that they deserve right now on this weekend? And what do we have to do tomorrow? And so there's a lot going on in our brains. And so this, we were commenting, my head hit the pillow. I didn't have a thought except for today was awesome and out cold, and then woke up the next morning feeling incredibly rested. And that was so grateful to our amazing hostess, and just so well cared for and able to explore a lot of things that, in that realm of taking care of our emotions and our physical being. It was just. Awesome. I came home feeling very filled.

Brenda:

yes. And it reconfirmed for me the importance of being in community with each other in real person. We love online. Online's super convenient. It allows us to be connected with people from all over the world. And at the same time, to be in the physical space and presence of each other, where you can see the expression on someone's face, you can see their body language and how they're sitting, you can see the little tear in the corner of their eye, or just the things that you miss on Zoom, to be able to have those conversations, give each other a hug, is irreplaceable. Completely irreplaceable. We're hearing all the time, all day, every day, people's issues and what they're dealing with their families. But there's something different about sitting with somebody and getting more context for that. And really realizing again, and I shared this in an email, I think today, These are elite level parents. The things they are doing just, it constantly amazes me because, I'm eight years past the worst of our chaos. You're well past yours. For the most part. and

Cathy:

it.

Brenda:

It's like childbirth where it's yeah, that was really insane. And then somehow magically you have another child because you forget the craziness. And so I think I forget some of the craziness and then just to hear it in the last couple of days, just so much awe and respect for the parents who are here listening and doing this day in and day out while holding down a job, while caring for their parents, while caring for other children, while being active in their community. It is just so much. I'm so proud. I'm like mama bear with this community because I'm so proud of them and so amazed. And it's don't you dare look down on this parent who is dealing with this. You have no idea, right?

Cathy:

Isn't that true? I feel the same way. So for all the moms out there listening, we are your mama bear. we definitely feel that way and I echo everything that you said right there. You forget when you were in it, what you did. and I've said before too, I was so paralyzed during that time and couldn't even think about doing my own work and everything. And I'm fortunate that when our kids went to treatment, we had some great. structure around us and support and, gentle urging to do the work. and I love that and I just think it's just so great to see these parents who came to this on their own, listening to the podcast and then joining our community or whatever that is. And yeah, kudos. And yes, we will protect you because we feel very protective of all of you amazing

Brenda:

Yes, and two additional groups that I want to mention. You said moms. I also want to just give a shout out to our dads because you're doing this with less support than the moms. So in a way, I think they get extra credit because we've got this team. just super active, super supportive community going on with the moms, less so with the dads. And I know it's even harder for them because they have a certain level of, I don't know what the word is that I want, but they can't be as open, I think, about it as we can. And so major props to you guys, you dads who are listening and doing the work. And if co partner, co parent, who's a male dad figure is not listening and you're listening, please go give them a high five and a pat on the back and a hug for all they do. Those dads are just, they're amazing. And even at this retreat, we had a mom who had lost a child to an overdose in 2021. I just want to give a shout out to those parents as well, because I know some of you still have other kids who are struggling or other kids that you're just listening for the relationship and communication skills that we talk about. it was really, inspiring to be with a mom who lost her child to a fentanyl overdose and is today doing a lot of healing work, with others in the community. if you fall into that category, we grieve with you and we also admire you and want to be here for you as well. So yeah. And what we wanted to talk about today, besides all of that, is we receive emails every once in a while from folks who say, I don't know if HopeStream's really for me as far as like joining the community. And this is not meant to be an ad for HopeStream Community. But what we wanted to do is some of the different, scenarios and folks and situations that people are in when they join, because we do get the emails that say, I don't know is my kid not bad enough to join? Are they too bad to join? That is the purpose of today's episode is to clear up some of those questions because we just want people to understand who we're for, what we're all about. our community is private, meaning you have to become a member to get inside because one of our core values is privacy and confidentiality, which is awesome. And it also makes it really difficult to Share with people what it's like. So we have this little bit of a catch 22. We do have two free weeks so you can join and you don't pay anything for the first two weeks, so you can test it out. I also know that can just feel like a lot for some people. So that's the purpose of today's episode, the Kathy and Brenda show. so the questions I would say we get the most are from parents who are in the early stages. I think the parents who are in the later stages of, an actual diagnosis or, maybe an older child who's been struggling for several years, a no brainer. Like we are a hundred percent for you. So I'll just kick off with one, which is I literally just found out something's wrong. Like I just landed on Mars because I found a vape pen in my kid's backpack. I found a baggie of pills. I saw something on Tik Tok or on Instagram. I saw a photo or I saw a text chain. We had a mom who, had access to her son's iPad, which is where she found a lot of information that she did not know. So this is very common. And also when you just have that gut feeling, like I don't know for sure, I have never caught them with anything, but my parent gut tells me something is off. And so that is a situation where we can be really helpful for you because we have so many parents that have been in that situation and they can help make you feel like you're not on Mars. So they can help you get through that period of shock and grieving and Oh my gosh, I think we really have a problem because it's a lot though. Do you remember those first times?

Cathy:

remember. And, those were those times where I was kind of expecting this especially my husband, I think, would say that because he experimented when he was younger. I didn't experiment when I was young. But, I remember finding pipes and, athletic bags, and feeling like, is this real? And then always getting the response of, that's not mine. I'm holding it for someone. Their mom would freak out if they knew. I knew my friend knew they you know, you guys are cool. So there was all that response. But feeling like, wow, okay, so here we are. This is what we do, and how I chose to respond in the beginning, I was kind of proud of myself. I was really open to it, okay, let's chat about this, and then it pretty quickly went south in our family when we found this wasn't an isolated incident and it happened more

Brenda:

Yeah. I got the call from the principal when my son was in eighth grade. He was caught with marijuana at school and of course it wasn't like, Oh, he just had a baggie in his backpack. It was the teacher in art class saw him and this girl passing a necklace back and forth and it turns out the necklace had some weed in it. It was pretty easy for me to rationalize it was hers, obviously, my son doesn't have a necklace, and so he was just holding it for her, right, like you can rationalize so much, and if that feels like where you are, like there's some funky stuff going on, there's denial, there's rationalization. I would say that's the best time actually to tap in. If I had tapped in and learned craft skills and had a community around me at that point, I can't say what would have happened, with my son, but I would have been so much better prepared. So that's actually a really, really good time, to get some support around you. What else? What do you hear?

Cathy:

absolutely. I agree. We also hear that sometimes parents don't really feel like they need this community because their child isn't bad enough, right? Or, they still feel they've got PTSD around the experiences that they've had, but does that really warn a community? Right? My answer to that is you feel so much better, honestly, when you find out that someone else has had that same experience as you, when things got really bad and people said Oh, the same thing has happened to me. And I just felt, Oh, this feels so good that I'm not alone because I was feeling so much shame around it, definitely blaming my parenting abilities. and confusion because I thought we had really great structure in place for our family. And we did all the things the coaching and the dinners on Sunday nights. but anyway, I do think that would have been really helpful because I know when we found out we didn't even want to tell anybody. How about you? Did you have that

Brenda:

for sure. cause your kid gets labeled as the bad kid in the neighborhood and then all of a sudden everyone sort of backs away and it's okay, now I feel like I'm left alone on this island, which feels like Mars. Cause I don't speak the language and I don't understand it and I don't want to talk about it and I can't tell anybody at work about it. And so super isolating. And you mentioned PTSD and I think that's a big one because as you go through different experiences. whether it's like a formal PTSD diagnosis or not doesn't really matter if you're feeling these feelings of being traumatized by the experiences that your child has or that you have with them, that is real. And we see a lot of parents discount that and say, Oh, it's almost like I have PTSD. It's almost like this is trauma for me. And all we can say is it is, and you need to get that support around you so that you can get through it. What I hear around that is my kid's just vaping THC maybe they're drinking, but I'm not really worried. Like I don't really think drinking is a big issue, but they can't get rid of this vape pen. But it's just a vape pen. Like I know there's people out there that have kids using fentanyl and doing all this stuff. And so they minimize their need based on what they hear other people. going through and, I hear this because people will say I listened to the coaching episodes and it's like, Oh my gosh, that sounds so bad. And I just don't feel like that's my family and that's okay. That's good. Like That's a good place to be. And if you can get the help and assistance and education at that point, you might be able to better steer yourself and your family through this experience. If you're feeling like I don't know, my kid's not really that bad, they're just using marijuana, we know based on all the research today and all of the data that's out about THC and the evidence that we see every day is it is not just THC, especially if they're vaping it, it is so high, highly concentrated. We would encourage you to look at, Johnny's Ambassadors, Laura Stack's community and her website. if you're not sure, or maybe you have a co parent or an ex co parent who's It's just weed. I smoked weed in high school. Don't freak out about this. You're overreacting. Go to Johnny's Ambassadors website. Get yourself educated. It is not just weed. We won't go into it here. I have lots of episodes about it. you can find a HopeStream episode with Laura Stack who lost her son because of the impact of THC. Don't minimize that if it's quote unquote just THC. another one that we hear and that people might minimize is You know, it seems like maybe my kids ADHD meds are not quite on track. Like There's a few missing or maybe they lost an entire bottle of their Ritalin or their Adderall or their Vyvanse or whatever they're on. Yeah, that's pretty common. And that could be, it is not a definite, but it could be that they are misusing them, taking too much. or selling them to friends because those are highly sellable in middle school and high school and college. So that's another one that could be a little red flag that says Hmm, because what happens with that often is after a while, if they're taking too many of the stimulants especially if they are not ADHD, right? So if your kid's either buying them or taking too many, then they can't get to sleep at night. And guess what helps you get to sleep at night? Weed.

Cathy:

THC, it's a perfect combo, yes, yeah.

Brenda:

So that is another common one. What else do you hear?

Cathy:

You know, I think it's important that we talk about the difference between substance use and substance use disorder because, they are very different and, the line could go into the other pretty quickly and, you just brought that up about, ADHD, and kids trying it I know my kids had this experiment like, wow, this was amazing. Especially if you don't need that medication. I know adults who do it and abuse this medication, and I'm dating myself, but I remember on Desperate Housewives there was this whole episode where one of the wives was using ADHD meds to get things done. And you think, this is great, I'm getting things done, I'm not as tired, So you could start using something every once in a while and then you're realizing it's really making a difference in your life. And then it might become substance use disorder, especially when it's taking over, things that you do in your life. So I think it's really important to talk about the difference between the both of those. And like you said earlier it could just be something that you're thinking it's not substance use disorder. But again, this is where CRAFT comes in and just talking to your kids about these substances and why they're using it. Because I think the why behind the use, really can help explain a lot of things. and if there's a big why behind using. That can easily go into substance use disorder. There's a lot of anxiety. If there's a trauma, or, with our kids, even PTSD, and they're trying to just self medicate, it's a slippery slope.

Brenda:

And I think the term substance use disorder, scares a lot of parents, as it should, but that, it doesn't mean that you don't need support. So if your child is experimenting and they're not dependent, like I remember my son, I've thought for a long time he doesn't have a problem because we just went on vacation for two weeks and he didn't have anything with him and he didn't go into withdrawal. So this is just, it's not really that big of an issue. little did I know how difficult those two weeks were for him. they don't even have to be addicted or dependent and ideally if you can get the help before they get to that point, that's ideal. So yeah, that's a really big distinction. And then another one that we hear a lot is I've seen a vape pen, I don't think it's really that bad, but they've just stopped going to school or they're. chronic school skippers, right? They're not even necessarily school avoidant, but there's just a lot of like school seems to be an issue. And so that is one of those red flags that we look out for because something's going on there, whether it's just the school situation isn't right. Maybe there's a bully at school. Maybe there's a teacher that something's off at school. So that's a really good red flag. So the school skipper is definitely one that we can help with in the community as far as learning some communication skills and motivation skills, for that. And I guess overlaying all of this is a term that we hear people, that come in and talk to us is, I just feel like I've entered this alternate reality. Like I don't totally know what's going on. I don't have solid evidence. My family doesn't really have a history of substance misuse or addiction and that was my family, but something is not right. my kid's going off the rails and I can't totally explain it and I feel like I'm not in reality anymore. That is very common and it's one where I think that aspect of community helps us to look around on a zoom screen or sit around at a retreat and go, oh, okay, all of these parents are very loving and caring and they're trying to do the best for their families. And that's exactly me and to realize that. Yes, you may feel like you're in an alternate reality, but you're actually not. That's, that happened for us this past weekend, right? At the retreat we were at, we were like, okay, again, confirmation that really good parents have really difficult things going on in their families. And that is okay. And that's, definitely a group of folks that we see.

Cathy:

That's a good reminder also to know that we don't always know what's going on behind closed doors, that so called perfect family may not seem as perfect and they're struggling, and how great if you could be that support, right,

Brenda:

There's another group of folks that often will be hesitant to tap into HopeStream and the communities that we offer because your child might be in treatment right now and they're doing really well in treatment. And your most programs today have great parent support. So maybe you've got a call every week, you've got a parent weekend once a quarter or a couple times a year. And you're like, yeah that's probably enough. Like I should be able to get enough out of that and maybe you can. And also if you're getting once a week phone call the other six days and 23 hours of that week, you're not getting anything necessarily. So having a consistent thread of support all week long, all month long, and also, this was actually a coaching episode we did recently when your child unexpectedly leaves treatment for whatever reason, you might suddenly lose that network of support. And that happens more often, I think, than we would obviously that we would like, but it is not uncommon for that to happen. you want to talk about the parents that we see that are like white knuckling it through, like some kids white knuckle it.

Cathy:

Your kid goes into treatment, right? And if you were like us, right? Or my family in particular, they go into treatment and you're like, you're grieving. Then you're Hoping like anything that things, are on the upward take and that things are going to go well. And you're waiting all the time to hear from the program that something's not going well. it's not a fun place to be. It's almost like your stomach is a knots all the time, but in a different way, And then when they get into treatment, or if they are in treatment, and you're still feeling that way, but for different reasons. You're hoping they stay sober, you're hoping all of this. like we said earlier, our community is definitely for you, if that's the case. and all that nodding of the stomach and all of that can really be helped with a great self care program. I wish there was a way to convey without feeling like, there she goes again, talking about self care. I would love to be able to impart how important that is in so many different ways, and what the definition is of self care, and I think that we really do a great job in Hope's Dream, of really showing all the different ways you can do self care, and the connection with other parents, and we have fun challenges that we do, and every single week, there are several posts about what are you doing about mindfulness? What is your intention? And I know for me, when I started getting serious about my self care, that's when the knots went away.

Brenda:

they start to loosen.

Cathy:

They started to loosen. Yes. Yeah. They didn't absolutely go away, but I will say that, they definitely loosened. And, I just looked at things so differently. my knuckles weren't white anymore. Like you say, that white knuckling it. And and I think our kids in treatment say the same thing. Cause they go through treatment, they white knuckle it, and then they find something that works for them. And those white knuckles are gone. So

Brenda:

And also for. the work that you need to put in so that when they do leave treatment, you don't default back to the old patterns that helped to get the family to where it was, right? So we have a lot of learning that we have to do because what can happen is the kids go into treatment, they're, so far advanced in their emotional regulation and their ability to communicate their feelings. And then if we haven't been doing that same work, They come home or they return to college or whatever it is and we are so far behind them And we can really derail some of the work that the amazing treatment program just did, right? So you've made this huge investment from a time and effort and financial standpoint You want to make sure that you're maximizing that investment And to learn the tools so that you can meet your child where they are when they come out because we need to meet them Where they are? When they're struggling, we also need to meet them where they are when they have advanced with all of their new shiny new skills so that we don't pull them backwards and retreat to old patterns, old narratives that really weren't serving the family well at the time. that's a big And then also, we see a lot of parents who say, yes, I know there's some substance use involved. It's not addiction. It's not a substance use disorder. But my biggest concern is I feel like I've lost my parental authority. I feel like I'm being manipulated and twisted around and there's gaslighting going on and I don't know how to right the ship with my kid who feels like they're running circles around me. And that is so common. it's really difficult to know how to regain that parental authority. We have tons of resources for that, because the substances might be involved, but at this point they're not driving the bus, we say. That's not necessarily your number one primary concern. It is a concern for sure because you know where that can lead based on probably other episodes and listening in on coaching sessions. But at the moment, what you're feeling is man, this kid is just running circles around me. Their emotions are driving everything that goes on in our home. The siblings are impacted. Everybody is like moving heaven and earth to make this, make sure this kid doesn't, explode. And we feel held hostage by their emotions.

Cathy:

eggshells

Brenda:

on eggshells. And what a lot of people don't necessarily know is the craft approach and the invitation to change, which is kind of like craft on steroids, is not just for substance use. It is a way to really tap into people's motivation and desire to change, even if they're not exhibiting any, indication that they want to change. It is a way to help move that forward and help with your relationships and your communication with everybody in your life. And so we wanted to mention that because what we hear consistently every single week, every single call is like, Oh my gosh, I use this with my boss. Oh, I use this with my other kids.

Cathy:

Or my elderly parents, and it works.

Brenda:

So that's a great situation where if you are feeling held hostage and walking on eggshells that you can really learn how to bring back more of a parental authority in your home. not in an authoritarian way, not in a bad way, but in a way that says, I am the parent here and you are the child. And that creates a lot of safety actually for our kids. And I've got an episode with Krissy Pozatek, who is like the queen of this, conversation around parental authority. If you haven't read the book, Parallel Process, get it, grab it, read it, memorize it. So good. Even if your child's not in treatment, I think sometimes people think they have to have a child in

Cathy:

for sure.

Brenda:

Absolutely not. It's a gold mine. So get that. Okay. So those are some of the, I think those are, I don't know, I think those are probably the main ones. although we do have this sometimes is somebody will say I'm in a fairly prominent position either in my industry, in my city, in my community, in my faith based community, or I'm kind of like a known name or personality. Because guess what? Famous people have kids who struggle too. And so I'm worried about joining because I don't want that all over the place. And what I realized we never talk about is you can join anonymously. So when you join our community, you can choose to put your full first name, last name. You could put initials. We have people that have a first name and a last initial or whatever you want. Because It doesn't matter who you are, when your child struggles, they are struggling and that means you are struggling and hurting and we have this with medical professionals, we have pediatricians, we have therapists, I know we have a couple of child and adolescent psychologists and they feel like, oh my gosh, but this is my job, like I'm supposed to know how to do this. And I would just say, listen to the episode. I'll put all of these links in the show notes. The episode with Julie, who shared, she's a addiction psychologist. and her son struggled. And wow, how difficult is that to ask for help when you're in that situation? So we hear that. We just want to say, we love you all you professionals who also have kids struggling. There's no guarantee that your kid's not going to struggle, even if this is your job. So you are welcome with open arms. You don't have to be embarrassed. join however you want, first name, last name. make up a name, we don't care. we're just there to, to support you and scoop you up and give you some love and teach you some of these tools so that you're not feeling so untethered and alone.

Cathy:

do hear a lot too that you may not be into group things like there are people, ah I am just not really into that group stuff and You definitely could do the on demand for classes, you can watch content on demand. But there's also ways in our community that you can do it in not being on screen if you want and we, we have fun chats fun and serious. sometimes it starts really serious and then like any parent who's going through all of this, sometimes you just have to laugh. and I love that our, parents have that ability to just really Laugh at some things that are pretty serious, but we have the chats and also you may find that being in a group meeting or something is more helpful than you realize. I know that I found that out, because I was like, Oh, I'm not really sure when I had done Al Anon before and, I remember the first Al Anon meeting I went to, for example, it was this feels weird, but then it was towards the end I just felt seen and heard. So I think that you may come on a meeting and not feel like, Oh, I'm not really sure this is right. And I think at the end of that meeting you're going to feel, this felt really good. And it really soothes you.

Brenda:

And there's just something nice about not having to minimize. What's really going on because sometimes with family or with friends, you have to edit. whatever's going on, right? Cause sometimes it's embarrassing or it's really bad or you're worried about what their response is going to be and you just don't have the energy to deal with the other person's response, right? So to be able to say what is actually going on, no matter how crazy, how weird, how difficult to be able to just voice that and have nobody bat an eye. And go, Oh, I got you. Like I, we had somebody the other day that posted Well, My son finally got into treatment. I went into clean his room up and I found fentanyl. What do I do with it? Like, where are you going to ask that question? Right? So this is the place where you don't have to edit anything. You don't have to minimize it. You can be fully as open and real. And then you can go back to your normal life and do all the editing and curating that you need to, but here it is just, we are all very real. We talk about how this is real This is real life and it may not be fun, it may not be what you wanted, but it is so real and we're here for it. And whether you are, this is the last one. And I know that we've got to wrap up, but. the the other thing that we want to make sure people understand is that if you are a caregiver, so you may be a brother, you may be a sister, an aunt, a grandmother, a grandfather who is caring for somebody who is struggling, you qualify. Like you don't have to be a traditional mom or dad. We just put that because honestly like so many different people. We don't have enough room or character count in all the places that we, share this. So if that is you, if you're caring for somebody or if you just care about them, you don't even have to be caring for them. We have fiances of people who have. siblings who are struggling, for example know, I'm getting married to this and his brother is really struggling with alcohol. What, how can I support my fiance or how can I make sure and hold boundaries around our relationship? So all of those things, will be helpful. So, whew,

Cathy:

I'm sure there's more we're always available. So reach out if we didn't cover something, feel free to email us and we'll talk to you. And like Brenda said earlier, it's a two week free trial period. You could just go in do as much or as little as you want just to see if this is right for you.

Brenda:

Awesome.

Cathy:

Thanks, Brenda.

Brenda:

Okay, my friend, that is a wrap for today. Don't forget to download the new ebook Worried Sick. It's totally free and it will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating those positive conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It is at hopestreamcommunity. org forward slash worried. And guess what? We have moved the entire podcast to our website at HopeStreamCommunity. org. So now when you want the show notes or resources, or if you want to download a transcript, just go to HopeStreamCommunity. org and click on podcast and you will find it all there. You can search by keyword, episode number, guest name, and we have created playlists for you. Makes it much easier to find episodes grouped by topic. So we're really excited to have that done and hope you like. The podcast's new home. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You've got this and you are going to be okay. You're not doing it alone. I will meet you right back here next week.

People on this episode

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Brenda Zane

Host