Coaching Episode: A Quick Pivot; Navigating an Early Return Home From Residential Treatment

ABOUT THE EPISODE:

When Heather discovered that some significant changes were happening in her daughter's residential program, she began to worry the family was not receiving what they were promised. After an unproductive discussion with the program director, Heather made the difficult choice of bringing her daughter home early. Now what?

When we spoke for this coaching episode, Heather's daughter had been home for just one week after spending seven months in residential treatment. There are new boundaries to determine - from big issues like driving and employment to simple matters like cleaning up messes in the house.

In this session, Heather and I discuss how to assist her daughter in avoiding a return to THC use, while also preventing her own relapse into old, unhealthy patterns of communication.

EPISODE RESOURCES:

• Partnership to End Addiction

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Transcript

Heather: 0:01

You've said how you reacted early on with your son, like, can't you see what you're doing to all the family members? And can't you see how you're affecting us? And I I've reacted that way in the past. I don't want to do that again because I've learned to do better, but it, sometimes it rises up. Like I got to squash those old habits because they're not serving anybody.

Brenda: 0:33

You're listening to HopeStream. If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances, It's in a treatment program or finding their way to recovery. You're in the right place. This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane, your host and fellow mom to a child who struggled. This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents. So, after the episode, head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity. org. I'm so glad you're here. Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people. And now let's get into today's show. Hey there friend, it is coaching episode day. I was so glad that Heather requested this coaching call because her situation is one that I hear about frequently from parents, and that is when something goes not as planned And your child ends up returning home from treatment sooner than anticipated. This happens for a variety of reasons. And in the case of Heather, it was because of changes that were taking place at her 20 year old daughter's treatment program that she and her husband just weren't comfortable with. You are going to hear how Heather approached this really difficult situation, which by the way happened just seven days before we spoke and what she is struggling with now that her daughter is home instead of in treatment. There is a lot of positive stuff going on and yet this intuitive mama knows that there are potentially some speed bumps ahead. She is working on using all of her craft skills. To relate to her daughter and be mindful of the approach that she takes. And yet she's having a hard time knowing where to set boundaries that will help keep her daughter on a positive path. Like, does she hold her daughter accountable for little things, you know, like cleaning up after herself? Because those kinds of things seem a little insignificant right now. And what should they do about letting her drive the car? Heather wants to be sure she's letting all three of her kids do things for themselves instead of stepping in and doing them. And still, it's hard. These are real life situations that I know are so relatable and also so challenging, especially when you're trying to avoid confrontation and you're walking on eggshells. You're going to get a ton from this conversation. And also quick note, you're probably going to notice the audio quality on this episode isn't great. Heather and I had some technical difficulties, you could say, but we powered through anyway at the expense of the audio sounding a little bit off. And with that, take a listen to the challenges and strengths of a really beautiful Hopestream Mama. Enjoy. Heather, thank you for joining me today for a coaching episode. I really appreciate your willingness and openness and you're a valued member in our community. You're very active on our calls, which is always nice to see, you know, like see you really learning and absorbing and being just being really open to new information. So I always appreciate that when I see that in members. So I am happy to

Heather: 4:12

share because I am, I found the hope stream through your podcast. I was a listener for many months, probably about, well, probably two or three, but it seemed like a long time every day on my daily walk or out running errands or whatever I was listening to. And it just. absorbing all the knowledge and all the experience from, from everybody, just great, great guests and things. So, and then the real life experience of the parents was invaluable.

Brenda: 4:43

You can't replace that because those people are walking through, not exact, but similar situations and I think for me, I hear so many similar emotions, right, that parents feel. So even if your situation looks a little different, it's, it's all of those emotions that can just take over and start driving the bus when we need to like, So good. Well, why don't you fill us in sort of where, where you are today just to give us some grounding in that. And then we'll talk about some, you know, action cause these are coaching sessions are definitely different than therapy sessions. We don't do therapy. I'm not therapist, but what we do is we try to take your current situation and kind of look out. Maybe six months, typically I don't like to go a lot further than that because with our kiddos, a lot can change in that time, but we'll go forward. So, but why don't you, to whatever degree you're comfortable, just fill us in on where you, where your family is today. My daughter

Heather: 5:48

returned from treatment let's see about, she was about seven months in a residential placement and. To it, she went to willingly, she was voluntarily 100%, well, as much as she could be at the time, but she, she packed her bags and was ready to go get on a plane. And she went to Arizona for treatment and was there, like I said 7 months. And it had started out a certain, a certain way and in the program and it sort of changed. There was a lot of staff changes, which then created some situations that I felt like were not really what we were signed up for in a sense. I was scheduled to go for a visit in May first week of May. And About four days before I left, I bought her a ticket to join me on my journey home on the 6th. So she's been home a whopping seven days.

Brenda: 6:57

Yes. This is fresh off the presses. Yes.

Heather: 7:01

Yes. Yes. And we did set up, uh, because I kind of knew that we weren't going to be staying the year or the nine months we were, we were probably going to be cutting it short. We, we had some a counselor in place and her doctor that had been seeing her prior to her leaving. It was her psychiatrist that has known her since she was about 16. She's 20, unless I mentioned that, but We have like a life coach slash addiction counselor and a therapist that will deal with more of the therapy side of it. We're trying to kind of replace the components of the program that were originally in place before the changes started happening, if that makes sense.

Brenda: 7:49

Yeah. So you, you went into this treatment program. Feeling really good and you like the things that were in place in that program. And then as she was there, things started to change and you got to a point where you were just not comfortable with. Right. The amount of changes that had happened. the services that she wasn't getting. And so I think that's a really important point to just pause on for a minute to say, we really, even though she's 20, she is legally an adult, right? She could check herself out. Sometimes it's helpful to have A parent's perspective to say, Hi, you know, I'm seeing these shifts and this is not what we originally signed up for with this program in, and to advocate for her. And you kept a pulse on what was going on there and you'd seen her several times and gone out. And. You had eyes on her and so this was something, and I know you didn't make this decision easily either because you want to keep them safe in treatment, right, where they're getting such good care. And so that had to have been a really difficult decision to make.

Heather: 9:03

It was, it was, we were really confident in the program. And then, yeah, it was one thing and then another and another. And so, we did you know, reach out to the, the, the co the, one of the owners and he, he was very defensive. And so that was a red flag and it was like the, the, the big red flag for me. I know that they were very caring people and they had the best of intentions, but when he became very hostile. About our questioning. Yeah, it was, it was a difficult decision and, and I just had that gut feeling. It was a good 3 months of reassessing reevaluating. She was not unhappy. Let me make, let me make that statement as well. She was, she was working the program the best that she could. But when we would meet with her, we started to see sort of a, a decline in her cognitive functioning. She started seeming a little bit depressed to me. That was her, her sort of backstory. She had dealt with some years of sort of adolescent depression, anxiety, and that sort of, you know, It's like a little, the cyclical I don't know, I always think of the dog chasing its tail. It's like the anxiety and depression. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she was, I'm starting to see that coming back and to me, that was a, that was That was a decline. You know, I'm thinking, you know, we should be moving forward. I really, I really don't regret it. It's only been a week. I feel having eyes on her and having some some other opinions of people that we trust here at home. Was really key would not have made that choice if we didn't have things in place.

Brenda: 11:01

Yes. Well, you did a really good job of pulling together. It sounds like a really good kind of quilt of, of different folks that are going to help in that transition to support her, which is super important and, and shows the, the care that you took to make sure that this went as well as possible. So how has it been going in the week that she has been home? It's

Heather: 11:27

been lovely and wonderful and nerve wracking and all of the things we had about four days together, which was going to be my visit. Anyway and the state that she was in in Arizona. So we had some things planned. And she didn't know by the way that I was going to be bringing her home. We had a really nice time and a really nice visit and an Airbnb and we watched some Netflix together and did some hiking and some fun things. But she was like, we are really going home, right? She wanted to make sure and I said, yes, we're really, we're really going to come home. And, and I explained to her very much, you know, that we're going to try to mimic the original program as much as we could. Here at home, and there was going to be some, I don't want to say requirements, but boundaries or sort of expectations just because we were bringing her home early. Yeah. Does that make sense? Absolutely. So, you know, physical exercise, you know, was a big part of that program. And so we didn't make it a mandate as to what kind of exercise, but she loves yoga. And so she's gone to yoga every day. Every day, this past week, she's not been cleared to drive yet by her physician because of some of the medication that she's on. And until we get that sort of balanced out we just want to make sure that she, you know, still has that. Acuity that you need to drive a car.

Brenda: 13:15

Yes.

Heather: 13:16

So we're going to reassess that and another week or so with her doctor but I, we've been driving her, you know, I get up and take her to yoga and then she's really anxious to get a job. She really, I shouldn't say anxious. She's eager. Yes. I'm just trying to encourage that because that was going to be the next step in her program. I was going to be finding some part time employment. So we're, we're sort of, uh, looking at some little cafes and there's a couple little places like local businesses I think would be a nice sort of smaller, closer knit atmosphere than a, you know, a, a big corporate type restaurant or retail store. Uh, she's been, she's been, you know, getting on Indeed, the website and applying for a lot of jobs. My husband and I are like, pump the brakes, pump the brakes, let's not get too excited, you know, but she, she, she doesn't want to be bored.

Brenda: 14:21

Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, probably wise of her to recognize that because boredom typically isn't a friend of our kiddos who struggle with, you know, mental health and substance use. And so that's great that she recognizes that. But I also totally hear you on the concern of like too much, too soon. And yeah, is that, is that some of the things I'm curious what, What you're thinking of from a coaching perspective where you might be feeling some of the tension or the, the, those kind of friction moments or what, what feels like it would be helpful from a coaching perspective as you're in this, this is a really big transition phase. Like. Yeah. Serious transition phase, not in a bad way, but it's a lot, you got a lot going on.

Heather: 15:16

Being mindful for myself utilizing the craft and the invitation to change skills that I sign up for the live events on the hope stream and then I never quite make it. So then I have to watch the recordings and we're listening to the recordings, but I do a lot of. The partnership to end addiction, they have a really, they have a wealth of information on their website and they have their resources overlap a lot with the hope stream. I think that knowing where to let go and let her spread her wings, but yet maintain a little bit of guidance and a little bit of. reasonable boundaries is probably the most challenging because she wants a job yesterday and she wants her car back yesterday. You know, from a coaching standpoint, for me, I think it's important to understand how much freedom is too much at this point and how much is. It's helpful, you know, to feel like I'm not breathing down her neck 24 seven, right? She also, interestingly you know, there's, there's a lot of things that, that she, she didn't have a phone or electronics for all these months. So that is another interesting part of the transition. For example, when we sit down for dinner. We were at lunch yesterday after church, and I'm like, phones down, you know, no phones at the table still, you know, I do have an 18 year old also still living at home. So it's a role for all of us. So I think that makes it a little bit easier. It's like playing whack a mole again, with just little expectations, like cleaning up after yourself, that was something that they were very consistent with her working with her on uh, program. So don't, you know, it's like, don't make a mess here and think, you know. But, you know, I feel a little bad, I have to admit, you know, like, you made coffee and you made a mess, so let's clean it up, you know, even if I'm standing right next to the mess. I have to, okay, come on back in here. This is your mess to clean up. It's just really being mindful of not doing for my adult children, any of them really being the ages that they are, that they can do for themselves. And I don't know about you, but when, when you have a child that's struggling in particular I hate the word enabling, but I try to be very helpful to that child, you know, and yes. Yeah. And I think that's where I, I really I could also use a little bit of coaching. Like how much is just being helpful and kind and how much is, is saying like, look, I didn't spill this bag of chips or, you know, I didn't dump the, Coffee grounds on the floor, you need to take care of that, you know, and, and, and we did walk on eggshells while she was using, you know, because we just, we, we knew that it wasn't, we weren't dealing with the. The authentic person that she was, we knew that her brain was very chemically affected at the time. And, and I, I remember on your, on your podcast, you've said, you know, how you, how you reacted early on with your son, you know, can't you see what you're doing to, to all of this, you know, to all the family members and can't you see how you're affecting us? And I, I've reacted that way in the past, like, I don't want to do that again because I've learned to do better but it sometimes it rises up like, yes, I gotta, I gotta squash those old habits you know, cause if they're not serving anybody, you know, to, to shame or to guilt somebody into cleaning or fixing or, or making amends, so to speak, I mean, that's not going to be helpful. Hi,

Brenda: 19:58

I'm taking a quick break to let you know some exciting news. There are now two private online communities for supporting you through this experience with your child or children. The stream community for those who identify as moms and the woods for guys who identify as dads. Of course, this includes step parents and anyone who is caring for a young person who struggles with substance use and mental health. The stream and the woods exist completely outside of all social media, so you never have to worry about confidentiality. And they're also ad free. So when you're there, you'll be able to focus on learning the latest evidence based approaches to helping people change their relationship with drugs and alcohol. In both communities, we have a positive focus without triggering content or conversations. And we help you learn to be an active participant in helping your child move towards healthier choices. You'll also experience the relief of just being able to be real. Connect with other parents who know fully what you're going through and have battle tested mentors alongside. You can check out both the stream and the woods for free before committing. So there's no risk. Go to hope stream community. org to get all the details and become a member. Okay. Let's get back to the show. It sounds like you have so much self awareness about how you're interacting, how you, what your tendencies are. And that you're really trying to be cognizant of how you're interacting, which is a huge part of the battle. Right? So you, you've got that. It sounds to me like you're able to be a little bit of the observer to say, Ooh, there's the, there's the spilt coffee. My tendency is to want to just clean it up because who cares it's coffee and it doesn't really matter because she's home from treatment, right? And that, that I think can be a cognitive distortion that a lot of us get with our kids when they come home. And I even have this to this very day. Where I look at where we've been and you might look at where you've been and you're like, this spilled coffee on the counter is so irrelevant in comparison to everything that we have been through. I don't even care. I'm just going to clean it up. Right. Right. And at the same time. You're, you recognize that you do need to ask her to clean it up or let her know that it's her opportunity to clean it up and we can talk about some things with that. So I just, I want to make sure that you aren't feeling like, uh, you know, this is all like I'm starting from scratch. You have a lot in place that you've learned, that you've gleaned, that you've absorbed and soaked in through therapy and training and, and, you know, all of that. And so, you know, it sounds like what you're saying is I need to know when to let go. And I need to know when to maybe pull in a little bit more based on the fact that she's just fresh seven days, fresh home from an, an early release from treatment. Right. And so that's a lot to juggle. I, I would ask, how is your communication with her? Like talk to me a little bit about how the two of you communicate with each other.

Heather: 23:26

She is a very introverted young lady and I tend to be very chatty because I love, I love sharing stories and getting to know people and she's just kind of like very satisfied to observe and take things in, in life. Our communication, I have to be very mindful of that when, when it's too much for her and I'm learning to, it's, it's taken a long time for me to not try to fill up the empty space when we're riding in the car, for example, with like chit chat.

Brenda: 24:07

Yeah.

Heather: 24:08

Yeah.

Brenda: 24:09

How do you know, how do you know when it's too much for her? What tells you like, Ooh, I'm overdoing it a little bit. She

Heather: 24:16

stops answering her, her life coach. He wasn't really a therapist. He was the co owner of the program that she was in that he was more of a life coach and a sort of a goal setting, you know, I, I guess a life coach would be the best way to describe him. He was really good at reading her and he could see when she was having enough of like family session, which we would only meet for about 30 minutes. And that was actually by design, because that was about all she could take. So I just read her body language and I kind of listen to the way she's answering me. And when her answers become one word, very low on details, it's like, she just really wants to decompress. And I do have another child that is. My son is way more gregarious. He's a little bit more, he reminds me of my own father. Like he takes after my side of the family. We're just kind of like talk all over each other. Like he came home from work a few minutes ago. Well, about an hour ago now, but and he plopped down on my bed and he was just like, Oh, What a day, and he just was like playing with the dog and sharing his day with me. So that communication flows very naturally because he and I have the same personality and communication style.

Brenda: 25:44

Right.

Heather: 25:45

My daughter she moves to the house, we call her the ghost because she'll just like show up in the kitchen. You can't even hear her footsteps. And it's interesting because when she was a baby, she was the quietest baby. I do find open ended questions are very helpful, you know, but again, I have to watch the responses because once they start sort of becoming. Yeah. I don't know. Right. Like that response. That's a good indicator. Right. Just flat out. Say now, like, you want me to shut up and be like, kind of, yeah,

Brenda: 26:20

well, and that's so good when you can get to that point where, and that's where I was sort of going to understand if you're able to have that dynamic to be. Because that can be so disarming and so relieving for somebody who doesn't like to speak. They'll have somebody say, Oh gosh, it looks like you probably just want me to stop talking right now. And, and they will often just be like, Oh yes, please stop talking. And so if you can keep that up and really let her know, Hey, I recognize this. I see this. And it's obviously not intentional to try and drive you crazy. So have a code word or a code signal, or, or you could just say that, right? Like, Oh my gosh, I just realized I probably should stop talking. That can just be. It would be such a relief for her to know my mom gets it and maybe there's another form of communication. I don't know if she likes to write or, you know, writing little notes to each other. Sometimes for somebody who doesn't like to talk a lot, writing can be really effective. And, and it, it sounds like she, I mean, given she's in her own transition, right? She's coming from a very controlled environment. They've very like back to the real world, which can be completely overwhelming. Even if she had finished the program and they had geared her up for all of that, that could still be overwhelming. But being able to have those conversations, I think is going to be your best bet is asking her what would feel supportive right now? Like I don't know. I've never been almost, you know, 20 years old, almost 21 coming home, like in your situation. What does that feel like and just really being that curious supporter and, and asking her what would feel supportive, especially in, as she's going to get a job and, and wanting to get the car, having some of that conversation around, what would be a red flag for you that you're taking on too much? Like,

Heather: 28:35

what,

Brenda: 28:36

what would be an indicator to you that, Oh, maybe I'm going a little bit too fast. And it doesn't mean that you can't get a job, but maybe you volunteer somewhere for a few weeks and then you go get a job. Being able to sort of have those on an ongoing basis and maybe again, back to the not liking to talk so much thing, maybe even having some idealists on the refrigerator or sometimes just using the word brainstorm, like let's, let's spend. And make it time bound. Let's spend 10 minutes brainstorming what X, Y, Z could look like because that's an indicator to her. Okay. My mom's not going to talk for an hour. And we're, we're going to end up with some ideas, but we're not trying to solve anything right here. Right. We're just trying to brainstorm some, some thoughts about what this could look like over time so that it doesn't feel so black and white. And like she's having to make, that's still a lot of decision making, right? Like there's a lot of decisions to be made right

Heather: 29:42

now. Yeah. Yeah. And we think we have the answers to just tell them, you know? Yes. And that's of course. I do know that I, I do need to work on some open-ended questioning rather than just how do you feel? How are you feeling? Right, right. Because she gets sick of that question.

Brenda: 30:03

Yeah. And you can also share what some of your red flags might look like to say, you know, for me. If I see you're not sleeping well, or if I, whatever it is that you see in her, that would kind of tell me that we need to have another conversation, right? It's not like, Oh my gosh, if I see this, you're going back to treatment. Cause that's always the worst fear. Usually the worst fear is like, Oh no, they're going to ship me back to treatment. But you know, just letting her know, these are things that I know about you and I see in you. And so do I have your permission to share that with you? If I see that happening? Okay. Bye. And asking permission is a big door opener because she's going to feel supported and not judged or put down, but just, you know, do I have your permission to share that? And then we'll just have another conversation. That's all we need to do. And I hope you feel the same, right? I hope you feel like if you're seeing a red flag in your own life. That you would be able to come to me that I am the safe person to come and say, mom, you know, I'm feeling this way or I'm feeling that, or I'm not feeling anything or whatever it is that she knows that you're that person that she can come to and have that conversation. Also, you know, if you're really brave, you could ask her like, what are some red flags that you might see in me and my behavior? Cause as we know, parents relapse just like kids do. We relapse into our old behaviors, like you said, the, you know, like just giving answers and you know, uh, Going into some of those things and you could even sort of kind of co create some of these agreements to say, my tendency is to, you know, fix and solve and, and overbear or overtalk or whatever. And if you see me doing those sweetheart, you have my permission to let me know. Because I want to know if I'm doing that. That's a

Heather: 32:04

great strategy. And I know I've heard it before, but this is, this is such a great refresher because I think that would be so helpful to her to be able to say, you know, these are the things that, you know, You're, you're kind of wobbling mom, like, you know, you're, you're, you're heading for a, a little crash. Yeah, and, and I, I did have a moment, I don't even remember it, but I was hurt by something she said, and I believe it was just this past Friday and I. I noticed that I was like, kind of getting into that, well, fine then, you know, fine. I don't want to say passive aggressive, but maybe it was like if you're going to, if you're going to talk to me like that, then I'm not going to take you to yoga or whatever. I don't even remember what it was, but right. And it was through text, and I think texting, it can be good, because somebody like her that doesn't like to talk, however, I don't text, she'll do short answers, I voice text, so my response will be way too long, and so I have to stay out of the texting realm, I think, with her, I don't know if that sounds silly or not, but I do know that it was, It was something taken the wrong way by me so that I was like, fine, you know, and it was all through texting.

Brenda: 33:39

Which is really hard to read context, right? And that could even be just something that you two work on to say, for now, I know I'm not great on texting, right? So we're just going to put a pause on that. And maybe we revisit it down the road, but right now when everything is so fresh and we're in this really sort of like fresh transition phase, you know, could we agree for the next few weeks that we'll have face to face conversations or phone? And I promise I will keep it short. I always like to try to remember like one thing in one conversation, not 11 things in one conversation, because it's too much, it's just too much for them, but, but yeah, and, and really the more that we can be human with our kids, right. To say. You know what? Your mom did not get the great texting genes. So I'm going to need to just, you know, whatever, however you want to say it, but taking a little bit of that responsibility and, and say, but I can work on it. You know, it's something I can work on. Can be. Can be really again, disarming. And, and I was going to go back to your picking up after comment, because I think every parent, regardless of whether your kids struggle or not, we, we, we have that. And if you have a kid who struggled, you have that additional level of, like we talked about, like, Oh my gosh, this is so irrelevant. I'm just going to clean this up, or I'm just going to do this or do that. And we had, I'll just tell you a funny thing that we did in our family. We have an air fryer. And I have one child who always leaves the air fryer unclean. So when I go to put something in it, there is food in it and it stinks and whatever. So I, you know, I was like, got to clean up the air fryer, got to clean it. And then half the time I would just do it because I was like, whatever, it's just the dumb air fryer. But like you, I realized I need to hold him accountable for these things. They're little, but they're big, right? These are the little things that are the big things. And so I drew on a little post it note, AFV, and I showed it to him and I said, if you see this post it note on the air fryer, it means you have an air fryer violation. And if you get an air fryer violation, It means that you don't get to use the air fryer again, right? Whatever. Like we just made it funny. Yeah. Because it's not that serious, but it's important. I feel like you guys are in such a positive place and you have so many good things wrapped around her. And of course it's not going to go flawlessly. I think you're, you know, well aware of that, that there can absolutely be speed bumps. There probably will. But if you're already aware that those might happen and you've got some plans in place and you've got that open communication, it sounds like you've done such a good job of setting this up for the best possible success. It's, it's gone so

Heather: 36:47

much better than we, we imagined. And my husband was like, you bought a chicken, and I was like, And he was like, okay, well, it's done. So he was really white knuckling it because he's looking out for me and my emotional

Brenda: 37:08

barometer. How are you taking care of yourself so that you can, because this takes a lot of brain space for you, like, how are you going to keep your, yourself healthy and whole so that you can. I

Heather: 37:23

was just making sure to get in a walk. We live very close to the beach, so we just walk right down to the beach. Mindfulness is a big thing, you know, just really enjoying the moment, living in the moment. I did take on a very part time job teaching and I realized very quickly, even though I was really excited to be back doing what I love, I don't have the I don't have the brain space to deal with somebody else's adolescent children. So, but yeah, I think, I think we're off to a very good start. And it's in no small part to the the support from the HopeStream. Honestly. What you're doing is just

Brenda: 38:03

It's phenomenal. Thank you. And we love having you. And there is some, so much power in being able to share the experience, right. And to know that you've got a couple hundred sisters right behind you at any given moment that you could tap into to say, Hey, having a great day or having a rough day and they get it. Yeah. They get it. Oh, yeah. They know exactly what you're going through. So, well, we're thrilled to be able to do it and we're so happy to have you here and we may have to do a part two so everybody can hear how it's going in a couple of months and it sounds like you're off to a great start. So thank you so much for joining. Yeah. Thank you so much, Brenda.

Heather: 38:44

I appreciate it.

Brenda: 38:46

Okay, my friend, that's a wrap for today. Don't forget to download the new ebook, Worried Sick. It's totally free and will shed so much light on positive tools and strategies you can use right now to start creating conditions for change in your home and in your relationships. It's at HopeStreamCommunity. org forward slash worried. And as always, you can find any resources mentioned during today's show at BrandisZane. com forward slash podcast. That is where every episode is listed and you can search by keywords, episode number or the guest name. Plus we've created lay lists for you. Which make it easier to find episodes grouped by topic. And those are at brendazine. com forward slash playlists. Please be extraordinarily good to yourself today. Take a deep breath. You have got this. You are not doing it alone. And I will meet you right back here next week.